RUST on LOBES , LOCKED motor?
 

bought another euro sedan yesterday for next to nothin'.
it had been sittin' for 4 years, owner said because the Solex 4A1 carb had been giving him trouble. (imagine that :) ) he said the motor was solid.

towed it home and drained the gas. put a battery in it, and it just won't turn over. starter engages, but no go. tried it by hand by the crankshaft, and it's TIGHT. :(

the oil on the dipstick looks good.
the coolant looks good.
i pulled the valve cover, and the 1st picture will show you what i saw: rust and crud on camshaft/lobes.
then i pulled the plugs, and the 2nd picture will show you what i saw: little rust and (mold?) on the tips. (plug in worst condition in focus in photo).

would you assume the motor's totally seized + wasted, or ?
what would you do now if you were me?

I would think the cam is toast. It also could be siezed. will the crank wiggle at all? The rust on the plugs is discouraging too. It suggests water has been in the oil to me. Also suggests the cylinders may be very rusty too.

But a good soaking might loosten the pistons enough to get it to turn over, you never know.

But I am thinking very likely it will have to be torn down and gone through.

Tom W

I would remove the hood, then the head ....and plant flowers in the cylinders :)

Seriously, is all that rust from sitting in the damp NW climate? I agree that the motor is probably toast.

crank will wiggle a bit, and seemed to have turned with the starter a little before first 'seizing.' i was tempted to turn i backwards a little by the crank, but didn't.

certainly can't see water in the oil, from dipstick tube...course, i know that doesn't mean much.

as far as "a good soaking," how would one go about that?

i could do a soaking, then try to turn her over without any plugs in her...
maybe do an oil change first?

I've seen some crazy redneck stuff around here with guys firing motors (chevrolet) that have been sitting with no hoods and rust throughout various components.

Motors i never thought would fire, turn right over .


If you can actually turn the crankshaft via the bolt then i would say it isn't "seized" . If the motor oil looks milky than you might have water in the oil .


If the crank turns, then i would say to pull the head and replace cam, get new plugs and try it again .

For a "good soak", try putting some diesel in through the spark plug holes, let it sit for a day or so,with the plugs in loosely, then squirt in a bit of motor oil, and see if you can turn the crank pulley.

I think the cam may be siezed. this is tricky since it turns in unfaced aluminum. I would proceed with care about the cam. I would probably pull the cam and towers and try to free the journals one at a time.

As for the cylinders various things will help. Tranny fluid, marvel mystery oil, penetrating oil as well or better than diesel fuel. just be sure to remove plugs before trying to turn it over so the oil can be pushed out.

I would drain the motor oil and see if there is water in the bottom of the pan, probably first thing.

Good luck

Tom W

plan
 

good to have a plan, thanks.

can i really spray penetrant into the spark plug holes? (seems like that would the the most powerful way to get things loosened up, but, is it also possible it'll be detrimental in some other way (as opposed to marvel mystery, or the like)?

maybe i should spray down the cam journals with penatrant before i try moving them?

penetrating oil will cause no problems, its just expensive.

Its a good chance you'll wind up tearing it down but if you should happen to be successful it might run.

But I would pull the pan and clean it out good before trying to run it.

Tom W

well then
 

i think i'll:

1. drain the oil + check for water.
2. spray a couple courses of penetrant down the spark plug holes.
3. spray penetrant on the cam journeys and remove them + towers.
4. rub journeys with scotchbrite pad, and, if not absolutely toast, replace.
5. top up plug holes w/ marvel mystery
6. start the dang car!

how's that sound?

Its a plan. Just remember to allow the oil to be pushed out before installing plugs.

Tom W

1. Soak liberally with gasoline (petrol).
2. Light a match.
3. Stand well clear.

REVISED plan?
 

drained the oil. see the photos for what it looked like. second photo shows a drip of the newly drained oil (left) next to a drip of some other old oil i had sittin' around from another car. big difference.

shined a flashlight down the spark plug holes. i could see (in the #2 and #5 cylinders) some watery lookin' stuff down in there. sucked out a couple ounces of it with my mightyvac. it's like dirty water with little rusty tinge to it.

does this mean i'm sunk?
how'd that water get in there? did the guy blow a head gasket and withhold that information? or does water sneak into the system when stored, and condense in the head?

what now? i assume i shouldn't try and start her knowin' that crud's in there. maybe i should pull the head? or stick to the original plan?

From the pic of the camshaft, it's quite clear what happened:

The valve cover was left off the engine. I've seen MB engines with their valve covers left off in the junkyard - they all look like that. Not a single one I've ever seen in the junkyard that had the valve cover on was rusted - even if the cam was dry (no oil) and the hood was open.

The oil wasn't oil. I would consider the engine inside of that not worth rebuilding. If you get into tearing it down you'll wind up wanting to rebuild, rework or replace most everything. At this point, you're best off trying to take the heaviest rust off of the camshaft (with 0000 steel wool most likely), putting penetrant into the cylinders (PB Blaster) and letting that soak, and repeatedly putting penetrant into the cyls every 4 hours - a 5 second shot. Do that over the course of about 2-3 days, then put a breaker bar on the crank bolt and gently turn the engine the SLIGHTEST bit backwards, then pull forwards until it seems to spin freely. If it seizes again, repeat the PB Blaster process. You'll eventually get it to turn freely, then you want to replace the oil filter and fill the crankcase with 1/2 the cheapest 5w30 and 1/2 the cheapest ATF and attempt to crank it with the starter. Do that until it builds up oil pressure. If you're feeling daring, try to start it off of ether or hell, even gas and try running it for about 2-3 minutes. Then shut it off, check the oil and if watery, drain and re-fill with 5w30 and repeat.

If you can get it to run, then you resurrected an engine that you don't want to consider rebuilding. Congrats! Drive it until it dies.

Tomguy nailed it, thats what I would do.

Get a rebuild, or junkyard engine.