Quick question about verifying engine originality - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 06-20-2003, 09:20 PM

Bet y'all thought you were rid of me, huh!? I have a question that hopefully somebody can help point me in the right direction.

Had a long talk with bro-in-law last weekend while fidhin', got a half-hearted offer to buy back the car but he looked so pitiful I haven't taken him up on it yet. I had presented all of my evidence of the car's advanced age and he said the seller (his neighbor) swears on his mother's grave, a 6 foot stack of bibles, etc., that the car only had 30k miles on it before the court had it impounded while an apparently sticky estate was probated and resolved. He contends that somebody must have "switched" engines with this one while it was in impound.

I told bro-in-law that I suppose it was remotely possible for this to happen but looking at other signs (grease caked rear-end, butchered wiring, totally shot interior, wear on the front carpets, etc.) tells me that the car has well over 30k on it. If I can authoritatively say, "This engine has not been changed, because...", I can at least go down and watch him probably give the ol boy a good ass whuppin'. Might not be $1500 worth of entertainment but it'd be better than nothing!

Now that my boring story is finished, my gestion is (to those of you I haven't ran off yet) is there some way to verify if a Merc has it's original engine or not? With the l/h head off I was finally able to find the engine serial number (which isn't even close to the VIN) but I'm not sure what to do with it! ;-)

Any help will be appreciated.

Regards,

Justin B.

psfred · #2 06-20-2003, 09:25 PM

Justin:

MB may have records on which serial number engine was installed in the car (believe it or not, you can actually get a copy of the original window sticker!).

Seriously, why flog a dead horse? I'd still just go down to the U-Pullit and grab an engine -- all you really need is a good block, and they are all the same up to the aluminum ones.

Peter

#3 06-20-2003, 09:33 PM

Well, Peter, it's kind of turned into a personal thing here and I vow to get at least a chunk of somebody's hide over this deal! Can't afford to buy another engine, and now the ol' lady doesn't want it because it's a junker that was misrepresented as a "low mileage" vehicle. So, ya see, I'm pretty much screwed coming and going so I'm aimin' to make somebody else miserable right along with me!

Spitefully yours, ;-)

Justin

Darrell Woods · #4 06-20-2003, 11:33 PM

The serial number on the engine wouldn't match the VIN (even if the engine hasn't been changed). Go to MBUSA's website and follow the links to their Classic Parts Center (ClassicParts@mbusa.com), and e-mail them. Give them the VIN (not the engine number), and ask them to send you a data card. They'll e-mail and hard copy you the data card, and it will list quite a bit of build information, including the "motor" number. If it doesn't match, it's a replacement. They don't even charge for the info. I haven't read your other threads on this topic, but if the car you're talking about is a '75 450SE the engine serial should start with 117.983. Other numbers would indicate a swap. For instance, after 75 the 450SE engine was 117.986. My 75 450SL should have a 117.982, but has a swapped 117.981 from a 72/73 300SEL. Apparently a 4.5 is a 4.5, so I wouldn't be too concerned if it's not the original. Good luck.

#5 06-21-2003, 12:03 AM

Darrell,

Thanks for the info. The engine number currently in the car is:

117 983 12 030073

I have e-mailed a query to MBUSA Vintage to find out about this as Peter suggested, so we'll see what happens.

Regards,

Justin

MikeTangas · #6 06-22-2003, 04:23 AM

and please let us know which used car dealer your bro-in-law works for.

So we can all be sure to stay far, far away.

#7 06-23-2003, 05:15 PM

Got a reply back from MB Vintage Group today and this car does in fact have the original engine. Soooo... Considering over 10 degrees of timing chain stretch, beer-bottle brown chain guides, and totally grease encrusted differential, it would be safe to assume this critter has well over 100k, 200k on the clock?

This mess is not totally my bro-in-law's fault, he is often too trusting of what people he knows tell him. He bought this from his neighbor who swore the car had only 30k miles but had sat the better part of 20 years due to estate problems, etc... My main mission at this point is to "prove" to him that this person cannot be trusted.

Regards,

Justin B.

gmask · #8 06-23-2003, 07:44 PM

>>>He bought this from his neighbor who swore the car had only 30k miles but had sat the better part of 20 years due to estate problems, etc... My main mission at this point is to "prove" to him that this person cannot be trusted.

It probably would have been prudent to have a car like that inspected first.. oh well .. The state of the interior is supposedly a surefire tipoff as to wether or not a car has been driven under a 100k or over 100k assuming it has never been restored. I have a car that has over a 100k and only driveside matt had a hole worn in it other than the interior is in reasonable shape.. that MBtex and carpet can take alot of abuse.

So from this decription:

"totally shot interior, wear on the front carpets, etc."

I would have a hard time beleiving that the car only had 30k on it.

It doesn't matter wether it sat for 20 years or not unless there were raccoon living in it.. hwich could actually happen.. then it is unlikely the interior could get worn out from that little usage.

But that is just my opinion..

#9 06-23-2003, 07:54 PM

I agree with you. I suppose I must put a disclaimer on the uppholstery and door panels. The actual cloth itself wasn't torn up but all of the horsehair padding was disintegrated. I guess if a car sat outside in the Texas sun for years on years that stuff like foam backed vinyl would dry and out and crack and the uppholstery foam would fall apart. The engine stuff, to me, is the big thing...

If it would have been me buying it I wouldn't have touched it, but the wife is another trusting soul... :-(

Justin B.

gmask · #10 06-23-2003, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by justinbowser
I agree with you. I suppose I must put a disclaimer on the uppholstery and door panels. The actual cloth itself wasn't torn up but all of the horsehair padding was disintegrated. I guess if a car sat outside in the Texas sun for years on years that stuff like foam backed vinyl would dry and out and crack and the uppholstery foam would fall apart. The engine stuff, to me, is the big thing...

If it would have been me buying it I wouldn't have touched it, but the wife is another trusting soul... :-(

Justin B.

But you did say that the carpeting was worn through.. anyway all the various indications of wear an dtear on this car tell me that it must have had over 100k on it but...you just really never can be sure what you are getting until you check out the engine and examine the whole car. $1500 is alot of maoney but it could have been worse I suppose.. even if it was in good shape you'd spend more than that in a short amount of time fixing it up unless it was in super great shape.

#11 06-23-2003, 08:22 PM

Well, the carpeting doesn't have any holes wore in it but you can tell there is a fair amount of wear when comparing it to the rear carpeting. The car's one redeeming quality is that the body and floors seem to be rust free except for about a nickle sized hole in the trunk floor, r/h side.

Justin