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  #151  
Old 12-20-2009, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwspence View Post
Can I run a Mercedes 1997 E300D on SVO and will Bio-diesel or SVO damage fuel lines or fuel pump or any rubber?

I first had a cheap Citroen Xantia which cost me 350 quid which ran fine on an 80percent veg oil, 20 percent diesel mix

A total of about 8 mechanics warned me about trying to run the Mercedes 1997 P reg E300D on veg oil and Bio diesel but I didn't listen and got blockages when I tried running it on a diesel veg oil mix. A treacle like substance leaked out of the micro fuel filter and the fuel line and micro and main filter were blocked.

When I bought the car I realized it had been standing for a long time; I didn't realize that the fuel tank had a lot of mold in it which caused me problems when I added veg oil to it. I had the fuel tank taken out, spray washed internally then put it back.

Only 5 liters of veg-oil in the cleaned tank on my Merc still blocked my fuel lines and I noticed that the smell the Merc gave off was more of a choking smell rather than a pleasant chip shop smell like from the Citroen.

A breakdown mechanic who picked me up explained that he used to run a fleet of vehicles and they had loads of problems with veg oil, he said the rubber fuel lines get coated with veg-oil and block the lines; he appeared to be correct as just changing the fuel filter was not enough, I had to use a fuel line cleaning agent to get the car going again. He said if I want to use veg oil I'd be better off changing the fuel lines to metal pipe.

Guys at two garages told me that old P reg Peugeot's and Citroen's run fine but they have come across a number of guys with Mercs who totally failed with veg oil and 'bio-diesel was even worse by damaging the fuel pumps of some 'Mercs. All of the mechanics assure me that Mercs like mine are one of the worst to run on veg oil and they've seen the customers to prove it; they are all against both veg oil and bio-diesel.

On the INTERNET there are many people insisting that Mercs are the best with veg oil but my experience and that of the mechanics is totally different. The mechanics state that the engine design for the Peugeot's and Citroen's are great for veg oil but my engine design is totally different and 'too refined. I cant fault their advise as I proved them right through my own problems. I suspect the reason why the veg-oil does not smell nice from my Merc is because it doesn't burn as well as in the Citroen which was great.

I'm amazed all of these websites have not picked up on how well the old Peugeot's and Citroen's run on veg-oil, if I'd known before hand I wouldn't have bought the Merc.

SVO causes problems with my car although it runs fine with bio-diesel !

My questions are:

1) Are there mechanics for Mercedes who specialize in Bio-fuels issues in the UK
2) Will SVO damage my rubber fuel lines?
3) Is rubber used on the 1997 E300D fuel pump?
4) Can I protect my fuel pump from Bio-diesel?
5) Will SVO damage my fuel pump?
6) Where exactly is rubber used on a Mercedes 1997 P reg E300D?
7) Will replacing the fuel lines with plastic or metal pipe improve my situation?
8) Have I over looked anything that may have contributed to my SVO problem
Question: 1) Are there mechanics for Mercedes who specialize in Bio-fuels issues in the UK
Answer: Yes, there are mechanics who specialize in Bio-fuels issues in the UK, and can easily deal with your E300D. http://www.dieselveg.com/

Question: 2) Will SVO damage my rubber fuel lines?
Answer: No, SVO is clean virgin oil that has not been used.
Yes, WVO = Waste Vegetable Oil will break down the factory hoses and O-rings throughout the system, + needs to be filtered, de-watered, and heated for most climates.

Question: 3) Is rubber used on the 1997 E300D fuel pump?
Answer: Yes, in the fuel pre-heater, lift pump, and injection pump delivery valves.

Question: 4) Can I protect my fuel pump from Bio-diesel?
Answer: NO, the O-rings and hoses must be changed to "Viton.

Question: 5) Will SVO damage my fuel pump?
Answered in question #2.

Question: 6) Where exactly is rubber used on a Mercedes 1997 P reg E300D?
Answer: Read through this thread, it is answered many times.

Question: 7) Will replacing the fuel lines with plastic or metal pipe improve my situation?
Answer: No, you can NOT replace rubber O-rings with metal. the O-rings and hoses must be changed to "Viton".

Question: 8) Have I over looked anything that may have contributed to my SVO problem.
Answer: Lack of personal research/education on the alternative fuel topic before purchasing the vehicle.
Note: It sounds like you are using WVO = Waste Vegetable Oil, not SVO which is clean virgin oil that has not been used.

I am sad to note that rather than research/study the issues, you have copied this post to several other forums around the world, perhaps hoping for a magic cure.

Here are websites with all the data you need...

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=14197

http://www.greaseworks.org/svo

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html

http://www.greasecar.com/kit_detail.cfm?prodID=23

http://www.goodgrease.com/buy-sell-classifieds/fuel-tank-selector-valve-viton-seal-svowvobiodiesel

http://www.biofuelsforum.com/svo_users/6616-viton_hydroflouric_acid.html

http://www.google.com/search?q=veg+oil+viton&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&rlz=

http://www.votechusa.com/system.htm

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  #152  
Old 12-20-2009, 12:07 PM
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1. Welcome to the forum.
2. You will find that the search button is your friend. Look up and to the right approximately 2.54 centimeters below Shop Forum.
3. There is tons of information on biodiesel on this and other sites.
4. Please don't use biodiesel.
5. And veggie oil in the same sentence. It keeps the myth alive that they are the same.
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  #153  
Old 01-14-2010, 01:46 AM
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Hunter I seen a post where you said hydraulic oil can be used. (not sure how to highlight and copy yet ) If so what needs to be done to the system?

I work on hydraulics therefore having an unlimited supply of it. 10 -20 gallons a week. It would be waste oil but the systems I get it from have a high filtration on them. Our test show the oil is cleaner in these systems than when it leaves the container.

What percentage can you run ? To think I dump it into a tank at the local hydraulic shops and they get paid to have it hauled off .
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86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
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  #154  
Old 01-14-2010, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soothappens View Post
Hunter I seen a post where you said hydraulic oil can be used. (not sure how to highlight and copy yet ) If so what needs to be done to the system?

I work on hydraulics therefore having an unlimited supply of it. 10 -20 gallons a week. It would be waste oil but the systems I get it from have a high filtration on them. Our test show the oil is cleaner in these systems than when it leaves the container.

What percentage can you run ? To think I dump it into a tank at the local hydraulic shops and they get paid to have it hauled off .
Danger:
NEVER use oil from metal grinding or cutting machines, the micro abrasive particles will wreck your injection pump in minutes/hours. (this includes differential/gearbox oil).

Yes, you can run hydraulic oil.
* If it is clean.
* If it is not contaminated with water.

Viscosity is the critical factor:
* Thin it with Diesel or Kerosene.
* I have run 100% hydraulic oil in the summer, and 50% winter -20F.
* The injection pump is notably quieter.
* It may or may not smoke slightly more, depending upon the oil and how well you match diesel fuel viscosity.

Warning, Thick oil can cause:
* Incorrect lift pump valve function and injection pump Starvation.
* Injector and pre-chamber coking.
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  #155  
Old 01-14-2010, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whunter View Post
Danger:
NEVER use oil from metal grinding or cutting machines, the micro abrasive particles will wreck your injection pump in minutes/hours. (this includes differential/gearbox oil).

Yes, you can run hydraulic oil.
* If it is clean.
* If it is not contaminated with water.

Viscosity is the critical factor:
* Thin it with Diesel or Kerosene.
* I have run 100% hydraulic oil in the summer, and 50% winter -20F.
* The injection pump is notably quieter.
* It may or may not smoke slightly more, depending upon the oil and how well you match diesel fuel viscosity.

Warning, Thick oil can cause:
* Incorrect lift pump valve function and injection pump Starvation.
* Injector and pre-chamber coking.

Thanks for the info you have me grinning ear to ear !! The oil we use is a ISO 5w20 or straight 10w It comes out of Aerial devices and digger derricks filtered down to 10 microns .

I'm guessing just run a pump with a filter from the barrel into my tank ? I didnt see anything about a spare tank .

Did you notice any difference in power at 100 % ? I would ask about the mpg but I imagine this was run on a closed private track correct ? wink wink nod nod !

Do you replace rubber with viton ? Im guessing lubricity is the least of your worries.

Have a great day !
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Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !!




86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes
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  #156  
Old 01-15-2010, 03:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soothappens View Post
Thanks for the info you have me grinning ear to ear !! The oil we use is a ISO 5w20 or straight 10w It comes out of Aerial devices and digger derricks filtered down to 10 microns .

I'm guessing just run a pump with a filter from the barrel into my tank ? I didn't see anything about a spare tank .

Did you notice any difference in power at 100 % ? I would ask about the mpg but I imagine this was run on a closed private track correct ? wink wink nod nod !

Do you replace rubber with viton ? I'm guessing lubricity is the least of your worries.

Have a great day !
More than you ever wanted to know about filters.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

No need for a second tank, with the mass of plumbing/valves/controls.

Running:
* Virgin spindle oil, I notice more power from 50-100%, MPG 28-30.
* Virgin type-F ATF, exact same power as diesel (a bit more smoke) at 100%, MPG 1-1.5 lower.
* Virgin power steering or hydraulic oil, exact same power as diesel (slightly more smoke) at 100%, depending on brand MPG 28-30, MPG is better from 50-75%.

At 100% Used/filtered oil has variable results, more smoke than virgin oil, MPG 2-2.5 lower on average.

I have not needed Viton hose, these are petrochemical or petrochemical compatible oils.

Finding a trustworthy source of used hydraulic oil is the biggest difficulty.
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  #157  
Old 01-15-2010, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whunter View Post
More than you ever wanted to know about filters.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

No need for a second tank, with the mass of plumbing/valves/controls.

Running:
* Virgin spindle oil, I notice more power from 50-100%, MPG 28-30.
* Virgin type-F ATF, exact same power as diesel (a bit more smoke) at 100%, MPG 1-1.5 lower.
* Virgin power steering or hydraulic oil, exact same power as diesel (slightly more smoke) at 100%, depending on brand MPG 28-30, MPG is better from 50-75%.

At 100% Used/filtered oil has variable results, more smoke than virgin oil, MPG 2-2.5 lower on average.

I have not needed Viton hose, these are petrochemical or petrochemical compatible oils.

Finding a trustworthy source of used hydraulic oil is the biggest difficulty.
Thanks again hunter. The oil link is bookmarked and will be used regularly both for buisness and personal . What a site !!

From your results these oils seem to run better than SVO especially if you dont need the second tank or hose change out.

As far as a reliable source theres a 50 gallon barrel on the back of my truck that stays pretty much full. I dump it in the hydraulic shops waste tank and the renderer dosent like water in it so I keep it water tight. I have 68 trucks I PM every six months and change oil once a year on most. The average tank holds 30 gallons with the diggers holding 50-100. I think I got the supply part covered.

I checked the state of Tx waste oil handling manual the hydraulic shop has and it states its better to incinerate waste oil on site than to have it hauled off. ( on site may be the catch )

"240D incinerator " Just doing my part !!! I'll try it and post results. Thanks again!
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Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !!




86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes

Last edited by soothappens; 01-15-2010 at 02:50 PM.
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  #158  
Old 01-17-2010, 02:03 PM
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Hello, I am somewhat new to this Forum, although I have used the main forum for some time.

I had converted my car November 2007, and have been learning more and more about this car and it's possibilities since 2005.

I perform all maintnence myself, with much support of many forums and communities such as this.

I hope to contriubte as much as I can as well.

I have a virtually endless supply of low use, WVO to burn in my car, heat my home, and soon, generate my own electricity.

I have just found out I have access to THOUSANDS of gallons of Used Turbine Oil, GST 32, coming out of GE Frame 5, Frame 7 and ABB 11-DM Gas Turbines.

Assuming the oil is "useable" (no heavy metals, water etc.) after testing, and if I could match Diesels' viscosity, would this be a viable fuel source?

I know from putting this stuff in the incinerator, it burns really hot.
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  #159  
Old 01-17-2010, 04:23 PM
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YES

Quote:
Originally Posted by ak49er View Post
Hello, I am somewhat new to this Forum, although I have used the main forum for some time.

I had converted my car November 2007, and have been learning more and more about this car and it's possibilities since 2005.

I perform all maintenance myself, with much support of many forums and communities such as this.

I hope to contribute as much as I can as well.

I have a virtually endless supply of low use, WVO to burn in my car, heat my home, and soon, generate my own electricity.

I have just found out I have access to THOUSANDS of gallons of Used Turbine Oil, GST 32, coming out of GE Frame 5, Frame 7 and ABB 11-DM Gas Turbines.

Assuming the oil is "usable" (no heavy metals, water etc.) after testing, and if I could match Diesels' viscosity, would this be a viable fuel source?

I know from putting this stuff in the incinerator, it burns really hot.
Yes, you can burn it if you match Diesel viscosity.
You are incredibly lucky to have the source...
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  #160  
Old 01-19-2010, 10:59 PM
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Heating will lower the viscosity significantly, if perhaps you had a heated fuel system and filtered the oil very well....

Diesel has a kinematic viscosity of 1.3 to 4.5 at 40C GTS 32 has a KV or 30 @ 40C and 5.2 @100C There is a chart showing the relation of temp to viscosity of common oils at http://www.frybrid.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7687 but it is important to remember that there are other factors such as calorific value of the fuel and how the fuel cracks in the combustion chamber. Viscosity only relates to the level of atomization and the lubrication provided, some fuels do not require the same level of intimate contact with 02 to combust well. It is also worth noting that the viscosity of today's ULSD is very low and is likely damaging your older engine. Many in the marine world are now blending 5% motor oil with thier ULSD to restore lost lubricity - this of course raises the viscosity. Lube oil and exhaust gas analysis are the only real indicators.
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Last edited by cgoodwin; 01-19-2010 at 11:10 PM.
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  #161  
Old 01-27-2010, 05:12 PM
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Undergraduate thesis paper by Ohio State physics major on the Waste Vegetable Oil as a Diesel Fuel. 1977, coincidentally.

http://etd.ohiolink.edu/send-pdf.cgi/Silvis%20Thomas%20William.pdf?acc_num=osu1171663355
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  #162  
Old 01-28-2010, 05:47 PM
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Electric Ted Morro Bay California

I knew him in the 70s.He had a 50ish diesel Benz,and back then he ran grease. Then he started fixing anything electrical,and Becker radios.
Thats when fuel was cheap,but he knew then that oil,would not last.
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  #163  
Old 02-02-2010, 09:19 PM
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Talking Wow

I haven't checked out this portion of the forum for a couple of months. It has blossomed! That's great.
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  #164  
Old 02-14-2010, 03:51 AM
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wvo filtration

Gentlemen,

I am thinking of upgrading my WVO filtration process by using a centrifuge. Does anyone have any first hand experience to pass on? Yes, I have watched the YouTubes. Better yet, is there anyone in the Las Vegas NV area that would like to combine efforts in hopes to fully utilize a centrifuge? It does appear to be an expensive proposition.

Thank You,
Joe Marroso
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  #165  
Old 02-14-2010, 07:09 PM
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centrifuge

Joe, I don't have any words of wisdom here but, like you, am most interested. Am anxious to see what you learn. Something about my makeup prevents me from wanting to buy a storebought centrifuge. I'm sure there's a good way to make one from junkyard parts -- and that's my goal. Hope you learn how and can share that knowlege. Will do the same when I learn.

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