Biodiesel versus Dinodiesel

[whunter]

Hello Everyone
Biodiesel versus Dinodiesel.
Need education and links for this subject.
Anyone near me running biodiesel or knows where I can get it?
What alterations would I need to make on a 1985 300SD?
Thank you.

[Plantman]

There are no alterations required with biodiesel.

You could actuually run straight mazola oil in it if so inclined.

Do a search and you will find loads of info on the subject.

Go to veggievan.org and do some interesting reading.

whunter,

Biodiesel will likely eat up the old fuel lines. You will probably want to replace them if you plan on running 100% biodiesel, but you can always wait and see if they start leaking before replacing them.

Otherwise, everything else should be fine. Biodiesel is really cool. I ran a tank of B100 in my New Beetle a few years ago, and the engine really quieted down. Power and fuel economy dropped about 10%, which isn't a huge deal.

http://www.biodieselnow.org

[whunter]

Did you mean http://www.biodieselnow.com/
The .org is a dead link.
Why would it eat my fuel lines?

Oh my gosh; information overload:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=biodiesel&btnG=Google+Search

[coachgeo]

The most down to earth group to discuss biodiesel and WVO is the MauiGreen bulletin board. After a year or so bouncing around the mail list and b-boards I found them to be more on topic and have Less politics and personal agenda's. Biggest thing though is they have hugely less amount of EGOS!!!.

Maui Green B-Board

A few of us in this forum are active in the SVO forum of that B-Board as well. I moderate a FAQ thread in the SVO forum that specifically for MB's. fueled by SVO.

You're right... it's http://www.biodieselnow.com and http://www.biodiesel.org

Sorry for the confusion.

Something about the esters in the biodiesel degrade the rubber of the old fuel lines. It's been a while since I've done any research on the topic, and my facts are a little rusty.

[The Warden]

Originally posted by VeeDubTDI
Something about the esters in the biodiesel degrade the rubber of the old fuel lines.

So it only affects older rubber lines? Are the newer rubber lines immune to the problem, or do the esters only have an impact on aged rubber?

I ask 'cause I've recently replaced the rubber lines back by the tank, and I think the lines in the engine compartment were replaced recently...which, theoretically, means that I could run straight biodiesel right now.

I like the WVO idea, but the initial cost seems pretty high...so, if i can get my hands on a 55 gallon drum, I'm thinking long and hard about making my own biodiesel, if it's feasible...

Diesel just jumped to $1.87 here, and I think we're only seeing the beginning... Even if we aren't, I'm getting real tired of giving OPEC my $$...

I'll try and get my hands on some information tonight and post the results. I'm curious as to the correct answer as well.

It is my understanding, from reading http://www.tdiclub.com that only the older rubber is affected by biodiesel. Keep in mind that this is relating to VW's rubber lines, and I'm not sure if the same holds true for Mercedes or not.

More info to come soon...

edit: in the mean time, here is a link to the Biodiesel discussion forum on TDIclub... there is a TON of wonderful information here. http://forums.tdiclub.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB44

Here's what I've found so far...

You probably shouldn't have to too much modification other than replacing rubber fuel system components with Viton when you rebuild. Biodiesel eventually rots rubber.

(regarding a GM 6.2 liter diesel) This is only in reference to the injector return lines that run from injector to injector.

A link to a discussion of injector pumps that have failed because of biodiesel use... http://forums.tdiclub.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=661081&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1
So far nobody has posted any pump failures, but I have heard rumors in the past.

So, based on what I've found thus far, you only need to replace your injector return lines with Viton lines (instead of rubber). Everything else should be fine.

Warden, you're on it. It's not just how much it costs but where the money goes also. You vote with your dollars, so dollars going to an alternative fuels grown in the U.S. helps us control our country's future better, I believe. Plus biodiesel has a much less carcinogenic particles in the emissions.

[soypwrd]

The residual alcohol in B100 (100% biodiesel) will degrade natural rubber products in the fuel system. In general, any vehicle manufactored since the mid or late nineties will be OK. I`m not sure about the compatability of various MB vehicles but will find out soon when the W124 300TD that will be sharing the stable with our two biodiesel powered VW TDIs arrives. Viton synthetic rubber parts are compatible with B100 and are available at McMaster-Carr.

Biodiesel is more biodegradable than sugar and less toxic than table salt, burns much cleaner than the Devil`s Tea, is essencially carbon emissions neutral, produces little soot, keeps manifold deposits to a minimum, and is domestically produced. It is a very safe fuel, just about impossible to light with a flame.

The two main down sides are price (ranging upwards to $3/gal...we pay about $1.40 with the Maryland Soybean Board Rebate Program) and availablity. Biodiesel is a strong solvent and if you have been burning the Rude Crude for many miles it will tend to loosen the gunk deposits in the fuel system. It`s a good idea to have a fresh fuel filter and some B100 for priming on hand if the filter gets clogged. Biodiesel also eats paint so be careful while filling and always wipe off spills. B100 will gel at about 25* so we mix in K1 and some special anti-gel for our winter B80 blend (80% biodiesel/20% K1) which takes us down to Zero degrees with no problems.

We have been burning biodiesel for over four years now and have gotten our total consumption of petroleum down to about 90 gallons per year (just to keep it flowing in the cold months). Going back to burning the Devil`s Tea is no longer an option for us.

[whunter]

Hello soypwrd
I presume you mean http://www.mcmaster.com/

Originally posted by soypwrd
The residual alcohol in B100 (100% biodiesel) will degrade natural rubber products in the fuel system. In general, any vehicle manufactored since the mid or late nineties will be OK. I`m not sure about the compatability of various MB vehicles but will find out soon when the W124 300TD that will be sharing the stable with our two biodiesel powered VW TDIs arrives. Viton synthetic rubber parts are compatible with B100 and are available at McMaster-Carr.

[psdsteve]

B100 should have no alcohol in it. If you were making it yourself it could if you dont process it completely.

Biodiesel is a very good solvent, degreaser etc. It's inherent properties will degrade natural rubber. Most people say about 6 months or so and the rubber fuel lines start weeping and need to be replaced. Newer rigs dont have this problem because they no longer use any natural rubber components in the fuel system. I have had no probs in my 96 ford.

BTW it will also eat paint if routinely spilled on it and left without cleaning it off.

[MonsieurBon]

Originally posted by soypwrd
The residual alcohol in B100 (100% biodiesel) will degrade natural rubber products in the fuel system.

Commercial grade B100 should have no residual methanol in it.

If you are making biodiesel yourself, it would behove you to add a methanol recovery step at the end.

[coachgeo]

The next debate Whunter you need to think about is
Biodiesel -vs-WVO

With Biodiesel you have to filter "and" process EACH & EVERY gal of oil thru the triesterfication(sp?) process. This means you are handeling dangerous chemicals and processes (Lye, Methanol) before it becomes a usable fuel.

With WVO one modifies the vehicle so it can be switched between Diesel and WVO via a single switch. Something you have the knowledge to do easily. Once your done converting the vehicle your pretty much done. You "only" have to filter your oil and then pour it in.

There are other limitations to both. Read through "Journey to Forever " As you read the info keep in mind that J2F is IMHO predigious to Biodiesel and the mail list they created in Yahoo are as well. I will give credit though where it is deserved. The J2F website does have the best collection of information/data out there even though its slanted.