GreaseCar WVO System - Solenoid Amperage Problem? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Blevinsax · #1 10-08-2006, 10:30 PM

I've had a GreaseCar WVO system installed on my 1991 350SD and although it runs extremely well, I have one final glitch to correct. Here's what happens:

I start the car and let it run until it is warm.
I change from Diesel (B20) over to WVO.
The car runs for a few seconds and shuts off. If I hit the accellerator up to about 3500 rpm's, it will just hickup and keep running, but if I simply let it idle, it will shut off. Then I can restart the car and after a very brief priming the car runs great on grease.

I have installed GreaseCar's auxiliary pump, it seems that I have good power to the system, and everything appears to be installed properly. It seems like the solenoid does not get enough power to open at regular engine operation - only at ignition does it get enough power to open fully.

................ finished this post entry a little later ..............

Okay, after some discussion (with my dad) I have perhaps determined that the power to my solenoids is at fault. At ignition startup, there is enough amperage to cause the solenoid to open, but during regular driving there is not enough amperage to open the solenoid. This seems to be why I cannot switch fuels while driving - the motor will shut down if I do. As it is now, I must find a place where I can stop to switch fuels. The motor will stop, then I can restart on WVO and everything runs beautifully. Also - when I shut down on WVO and leave the car for a little while, it will shut down again when I initially restart it. Again, I have to restart the car and then it will continue to run fine.

So the question is - where should the GreaseCar system solenoids be getting power? Right now I *think* my system is wired into the starter, but I could be wrong - I'll need to confirm it with my mechanic this week, but I heard him mention it when I spoke with him last week. If so, that could explain why it does not have enough amperage - the starter circuit does not get full power when then engine is operating - it only needs full power to start the car when cranking. Am I on the right track here?

Any recommendations?
Thanks!
P.S. I have posted this over at the GreaseCar forum, too, but nobody has responded - you guys here are a lot more helpful!

biopete · #2 10-08-2006, 10:58 PM

I like to run my solenoid valves through a relay. I use the radio fuse circuit for the switch so if my radio goes out, i know my valve is not going to function and can do something about it. Your mechanic will know how to do this but basically :

A wire from the battery to relay
A wire from radio circuit to switch and from switch to relay
A ground on relay
A wire from valve to relay

The idea is when you hit the switch, it allows the full power of battery to go to the valve while at teh same time using hardly any juice from the radio circuit and you dont worry about overloading the radio fuse.

I had a grease car valve i thought was working intermittently. Still not sure. it seems to work in testing. Id be interested to know if it is a faulty valve or just wiring.

Blevinsax · #3 10-09-2006, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biopete

I had a grease car valve i thought was working intermittently. Still not sure. it seems to work in testing. Id be interested to know if it is a faulty valve or just wiring.

We initially thought it was a defective valve, too, but I called GreaseCar and they sent me a new valve - free of charge. I had it installed and the problem persists, so I don't believe I would have TWO identically defective valves. I'll check out the radio relay idea - that sounds like a good plan to me!

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.E.Haiges

Check the voltage at the solonoid to see if it is 12 volts. If the voltage is less than 12 volts, trace back thru the circuit to see where the voltage drop is.

I can't figure what your mechanic is talking about. When the engine is running, the starter doesn't get any voltage (or current or power).

The best place to wire in the veggie system would be the terminal block that is connected to the wire from the starter solonoid terminal that is connected to the + terminal of tha battery. The veggie system would always be "hot" even if the key switch is turned off.

I do have 12 volts at the solenoid - I just don't have the amperage there when the engine is running.

That is true - the starter gets no any power when the engine is running. That's probably why my solenoid does not open.

Initially, we had the system wired "hot" even when the key switch was off, but because I have the aux pump on the same line, I could never leave the switch on WVO when I leave the car because the pump would sit there running. That's why I need to find a circuit that is OFF when the engine is not running, yet still gets full power when the engine IS running.

WD8CDH · #4 10-09-2006, 08:35 AM

If you have 12Volts at the solenoid then you need to check the ground on the other solenoid wire. If you have 12 volts ACROSS the solenoid and it doesn't work, then either it is broken or stuck up with crud rather than an amperage problem. If you had an amperage problem, then you would not be able to get 12 volts ACROSS the solenoid.

Jmana · #5 10-09-2006, 08:54 AM

This sounds identical to what I have been dealing with, with my Greasecar solenoids, but my problem isn't electrical, it's that the internal seals don't seem to be able to hold much suction, and when I get above a certain RPM, the solenoid lets large amounts of air into the fuel lines. If you'd look at how small the orifices are inside that valve, you'd realize that that is a LOT of suction being put on the fuel to get it to go through the small openings. At idle, it's fine, but you get above 3K rpm and within seconds I can feel the air getting into the IP. I've tested this while at idle by restricting the flow of WVO into the solenoid, and as soon as I do there is a big whoosh of air bubbles that comes out the outlet. Don't know if this is your problem also, but it sure does sound like it. And I tested both my solenoids, and both were the same, so I think they have a serious defect that needs to be addressed.

cavaliers16 · #6 10-09-2006, 08:56 AM

Do this with a friend- have him/her sit in the car and flip the Greasecar switch. You, standing over the engine, should hear the valves making audible clicking noises as they change from diesel to vegetable and back. Then try it with the car on. You should still be able to hear it. If they aren't making any noise you've got bad wiring. Here's how I wired mine:

Wire your solenoids directly into the fusebox. Mine (300D) has those round ceramic fuses that clip in to metal "arms." If you take one of those round connector ends that comes with the kit (or get a box at the store) and put the pointy end of the fuse through the hole and clip the fuse in your valves should get power. Just put the connector on a fuse that has power when the key is in.

Diesel Dan · #7 10-09-2006, 11:33 AM

I wired my solenoids into the wire for the cigarette lighter, and everything works fine. I agree with others that the quality of the Greasecar solenoids is suspect. I think I have some bleed-over between veggie and diesel, as the seals in the solenoid are not able to handle the suction. I've not had any performance issues on WVO though, but I wouldn't be surprised if I am getting some air in my system. I do have a big air bubble in my diesel prefilter most of the time. My switchovers from diesel to WVO are smooth however.

TchTchr · #8 10-08-2006, 10:59 PM

I had a problem with switching when I first tried running my greasecar system. The cheap snap together wire splicer they supplied wasn't making a connection. I soldered the joints, and now all is fine. The power is suppied by the lead the cigarette lighter which is no longer used other than for radar detector and xm radio - solenoids work fine. Have you posted on greasecars forum? Grease posts usually have better responses there. This place is great for all the other mechanics. Without this place (as well as local Mercedes owners) instead of doing the work myself, my auto would have gone to the shop many times over.

P.E.Haiges · #9 10-08-2006, 11:11 PM

Blivin,

Current (what U call amperage) in a DC system is dependent on voltage and resistance.

Check the voltage at the solonoid to see if it is 12 volts. If the voltage is less than 12 volts, trace back thru the circuit to see where the voltage drop is.

I can't figure what your mechanic is talking about. When the engine is running, the starter doesn't get any voltage (or current or power).

The best place to wire in the veggie system would be the terminal block that is connected to the wire from the starter solonoid terminal that is connected to the + terminal of tha battery. The veggie system would always be "hot" even if the key switch is turned off.

P E H

Matt L · #10 10-09-2006, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.E.Haiges

Current (what U call amperage) in a DC system is dependent on voltage and resistance.

I think you mean dependent on potential and resistance.