Feel like slamming Lovecraft yet again? - Page 6 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#76 02-24-2007, 02:27 AM

I'm sure injection line heaters would go a long way to help get the cold oil up to temp before it enters the engine.

JackG · #77 02-24-2007, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it

I am open to other Ideas on conversions, but the reality is this is not going so bad, so far.

Do a 2 tank. This way, your car will still have a resale value @ 200k

Quinn8it · #78 02-24-2007, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackG

Do a 2 tank. This way, your car will still have a resale value @ 200k

But is it really an improvement? now I pour Free wvo straight in the tank, no warm up, no purge, the car runs really strong, and I dont have to use Diesel. And as far a resale value goes... Have you checked the prices on e-bay for love craft converted cars. I could sell it now for a profit.... Really all I am looking for is some honest answers about what the real symptoms of the breakdown of this system will be.

#79 02-24-2007, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it

Have you checked the prices on e-bay for lovecraft converted cars?

That is just a bunch of sellers taking advantage of ignorant bidders.

Quinn8it · #80 02-24-2007, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

That is just a bunch of sellers taking advantage of ignorant bidders.

Did you just call me ignorant?

Be that as it may... Market value is based on what the market will support. ignorant or not... And if the only concern about a single tank system is getting your money back out of your 20-30 year old car, the current market will support that, at least the market that I live in. Does anyone have any documented proof that this conversion will destroy a car in this climate, and how long that will take? Or is it all about getting the same money for your car after a couple hundred thousand miles of driving?

#81 02-24-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it

Did you just call me ignorant?

I'm taking about the people paying $8,000+ for a 20something year old car with a bunch of miles.

MTUpower · #82 02-24-2007, 09:46 PM

Gbrebes post about 100-200K before damage would be done is pure speculation, and poor speculation at that. I'd speculate at closer to 10-20K miles is a better guess, seeing as how many one tank systems my indie has had to work on. Three IP replacements in one year and countless other problems and all three are one tank sytems in South Florida. The real thing is that people guessing about how long your engine will last on veg oil is that- guessing. I wouldn't be guessing that your car wil last exponentially longer on diesel than it will on a one tank vegoil system. If you think that the veg oil is a great fuel that is better for the planet, great- but like most things it's a bit more complicated than that. It takes a hellava lot of energy to design, test, build, market, sell and recycle a car. I would guess again that the energy to do this is greater than the amount saved by running vegoil- which means if you want to help the planet- use diesel and make your car last as long as it can, or use a tested and proven system and go on the conservative side of the scale for % of veg oil used.

Quinn8it · #83 02-25-2007, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Gbrebes post about 100-200K before damage would be done is pure speculation, and poor speculation at that. I'd speculate at closer to 10-20K miles is a better guess

I am with you on thinking that is poor speculation, damage that occurs over 200,000 miles dosent really seam like much of a problem. But if it is closer to what you are saying, 10,000-20,000 miles where are my signs? I am somewhere between 30% and 70% of that millage, my performance is getting better. Is the car going to show no signs of deterioration, and then just stop once I hit 20K on the conversion?

Quote:

I would guess again that the energy to do this is greater than the amount saved by running vegoil- which means if you want to help the planet- use diesel and make your car last as long as it can

I hate to say it but this just sounds crazy! I hope you are including the war we are in in the middle east in your energy spent versus energy saved calculations...

JackG · #84 02-25-2007, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it

. But if it is closer to what you are saying, 10,000-20,000 miles where are my signs? I am somewhere between 30% and 70% of that millage

Running rough, excessive smoke,clogged injectors,injection pump, are going to be the signs. But when they appear, it's too late. the damage is done.

greasybenz · #85 02-25-2007, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackG

Running rough, excessive smoke,clogged injectors,injection pump,

all of the above is what happen when i single tanked the 300SD. No longer have the car and is now probably sold to some poor sap who paid $3K for it with a veg kit made from crap.

The car ran great when i first bought it but that all went down hill pretty quickly. The coked injectors started all of the problems.

Its very simple, single tank kits dont work.

Im very skeptical that even elsbett's single tank kit will keep the engine alive for 200K+ miles. But then again they require new DIN spec rapeseed oil only. And will only warrant the engine if it was only ran on DIn spec rapeseed oil.

greasybenz · #86 02-25-2007, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quinn8it

I am with you on thinking that is poor speculation, damage that occurs over 200,000 miles dosent really seam like much of a problem. But if it is closer to what you are saying, 10,000-20,000 miles where are my signs? I am somewhere between 30% and 70% of that millage, my performance is getting better. Is the car going to show no signs of deterioration, and then just stop once I hit 20K on the conversion?

Pull your injectors. They are probably already coked up from starting up on cold wvo.

Here is what a coked injector looks like.

You can see the black carbon on the nozzle assembly. Now imagine that in the injection pump and cylinder walls....i dont think your engine will still be running strong on your single tank "conversion"

My 300SD sure didnt run strong after about a year of single tanking it.

gbrebes · #87 02-25-2007, 12:51 PM

I do have to apologize about the 100 to 200 thousand mile logevity guess on a one tank Lovecraft conversion. I was trying to guess high so as not to be alarmist. I have read of people experiencing problems with a Lovecraft conversion with not that many miles, but in a lot of cases with someone running their car on veg oil, it is hard to determine the exact cause of the breakdown. The quality of the filtered oil has a lot to do with it as does the previous condition of the engine before it was conveted. My main point was that damage will occur to your engine when starting it cold on veg oil. This is unacceptable to me when I believe that if you use a two tank conversion and do not switch over to veg oil until the car is up to operating temperature, there will be minimal wear to the engine compared to running on diesel. Sorry about the throwing out of the numbers.

Gilbert

Quinn8it · #88 02-25-2007, 02:21 PM

GREASYBENZ Thanks for the real answers, and backing it up. I just wanted to hear from someone who had some facts or experience to back this up. as I said before, I can believe the lovecraft system is total crap, I just havent seen the signs yet.... So I havent done it before, is pulling the injectors a pain in the arse? I would love to get a look at them, and see how far along the damage is...

I just realized you are in San Francisco... What single tank conversion did you have?

#89 02-25-2007, 02:26 PM

Here is a response I got from another forum:

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles Munn

All injectors present a coked ring. Regardless of the fuel burn, it's a normal occurance. The picture you've presented, where the ring is slopping over and is not a precise circle, indicates that the heat shield is failing.... and that has nothing to do with the type of fuel.

I also installed a 2 tank system in my creampuff 1990 Jetta ecodiesel, and drove it for over 35,000 miles, finally understanding that constantly heating and cooling veg oil is a major problem in itself, which eventually causes a green substance to form in the tank, etc..... and it's little more than a Rube Goldbery device..

Yet I do preheat the veg oil. It's first preheated veg oil in the sump chamber. I replaced the 5/16" fuel line coming from the tank, to a 1/2" fuel line which allows even near frozen veg oil to gravity flow into the heated fuel sump chamber, then into a clear filter, then into the electric fuel boost pump. then into another clear filter, then into a stanadyne water separator filter, then into another gp heater, then into the IP...

Still, with all of that...The veg oil only needs heating in order to get it to flow, and to extend the life of the water separator filter. Grantedf, the first few minutes before the engine reaches operating temp, the oil should be heated at the fuel injection lines...That can be done with in line heaters.

But after the engine is at operating temp, the natural heat, measureed with an infra temp gauge, at the outside of the IP is 120 degrees, and the natural temp of the injection fuel lines is just about 200 degrees. That means any fuel, including Veg oil, is instantly heated to 120 at the IP and to 200 degrees when it enters the fuel injection lines ...

So, IMHO, except to get and keep the fuel flowing, and to extend the life of the water separator filter, the need to preheat veg oil, other than the first few minutes until the engine heats up ( which is easity done by in line heaters ) ... Preheating veg oil after the engine is warm is a myth, probably created by those who sell heated 2 tank systems, and unnecessary unless there is a fear that it gets so cold that the veg oil solidifies.

That problelm can easily be addressed by adding a small 5 gallon marine tank in the trunk filled with diesel...plus. a soliniod to switch from veg oil to diesel ... and in my case, simply flip on the return fuel switch on my dash... which will send heated fuel to the tank and quickly liquidize it.

But even with that system, the purging is unnecessary provided one has in fuel line injection heaters... which can be bought from mobetta at schumanautomotives.com for $25.00.

< Message edited by Charles Munn -- 2/25/2007 1:27:53 PM >

Quinn8it · #90 02-25-2007, 02:42 PM

Interesting.... The heating from the tank to the IP sounds a little complicated.. but that step might not be totally necessary in my climate.. I am going to add injection line heaters ASAP, does anyone know of a simple place in the fuel line, before the IP, that could be heated like the injection lines? that might be all I need to keep this baby running for a little longer..