And again - I don't want to sound horrifically anti-WVO, I'm not. I just think it's silly to say it's not illegal after reading the above info. If you chose to ignore the EPA's authority - that's fine with me, honestly....but it's technically illegal.

And I do think it's funny that homebrewing bio isn't considered illegal in the EPA's eyes too....but whatever.

And what about electric cars?
 

Any additional state / Fed road taxes on electricity used to charge up a plug in car or a phev?

yeah i saw that, but i was talking about the actual letter of the law, the actual law on the books. its somewhere under 40cfr80, heres the definition of diesel fuel in the federal code:

[I](x) Diesel fuel means any fuel sold in any State or Territory of the United States and suitable for use in diesel engines, and that is—

(1) A distillate fuel commonly or commercially known or sold as No. 1 diesel fuel or No. 2 diesel fuel;

(2) A non-distillate fuel other than residual fuel with comparable physical and chemical properties ( e.g. , biodiesel fuel); or

(3) A mixture of fuels meeting the criteria of paragraphs (1) and (2) of this definition.

(y) Motor vehicle diesel fuel means any diesel fuel or other distillate fuel that is used, intended for use, or made available for use in motor vehicles or motor vehicle engines./I]

does that include VO? i think its pretty vague, especially under number 2 and y.

heres the link, what i took is under "definitions":
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title40/40cfr80_main_02.tpl

just cuz some lady from the EPA says its illegal in an e-mail doesnt make it so, thats why i looked up the actual law. Her interpretation of it is going to be biased. the reason they havent been charging people is probably because they dont have any case.

if it really is illegal, its in the CFRs

As far as I'm concerned, an un-enforced, and (in practical terms) un-enforce-able, law is no law at all. At least as long as "violations" don't harm anyone else (the old "your right to swing your arm ends at the tip of my nose" principle).

Passing law like that is a "feel-good-because-you-DID-something" (even if it was the wrong thing to do) exercise by the lawmakers - usually to appease some special interest group or other. Therefore, in practical terms, it can be ignored IMO.

I don't burn veggie or home-brewed bio in either of my diesels (yet). But if I did (or do), as I see it, the small amount of fuel taxes I don't pay to maintain the roads are more than offset by the fact that I'm polluting less, recycling waste, and feeding a farmer to starve a terrorist (and the oil barrons too for that matter - since they are holding us all hostage and raping us and basically behaving like terrorists themselves right now).

Do I see it as a violation of the princilples and ethics that I hold dear? Absolutely not. On the whole and in balance, the good of it outweighs the supposed bad. Especially if you take into account the fact that so much of what we pay in taxes gets pissed away anyway. The tiny fraction of people who even have the option of using these alternative fuels (people with old diesels that aren't under warranty any more), and therefore the road taxes not paid, is so small as to not amount to a fart in a whirlwind...

And here we've gone and argued 15 pages worth over it!

Jail fines and taxes - WVO / homemade biodiesel
 

Fair enough - I see your point (vs. an email from some district of the EPA).....here are some more definitions from there.

Does VO qualify as a distillate fuel or a non-distillate fuel with similar properties? I'm not baiting you - I don't know.

LOL, some folks feel they make up their own laws (or selectively obey existing laws) as long as they remember to capitalize "president." Please!

i hate to break it to you buddy, breaking a law is always by definition 'illegal', no matter how stupid or un-enforced it is.

heres a good article about the legality of running on VO:http://online.wsj.com/article/S60823DAVIS.html

this guy seems pretty convinced its not illegal, but he could just be kidding himself.

WVO is not distilled, and certainly has comparable physical and chemical properties to diesel. I think it would all come down to your definition of exactly how comparable does it have to be? Definitely one for the lawyers.

Ditto. This particular individual is about as biased as they get, based on being an EPA hack involved in air quality enforcement. Note that she only cites a regulation regarding certification of alternative fuel systems - not a regulation regarding use of the fuel itself. There are HUNDREDS of non-EPA certified "fuel saving devices" and other fuel system devices out there on the market, but are they illegal? I'm referring to propane systems, water/meth injection systems, fuel magnets, fuel injection systems, carbuerators, NOX systems. Given the fact that many of them are manufactured by big name, multi-million dollar companies, I'd have to say that no, they aren't illegal - even though they are not EPA sanctioned or certified either...

I'm trying to find a date on this article, is it recent?

40 cfr 79 also has some stuff regarding the 'registration' of fuels. heres the link
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title40/40cfr79_main_02.tpl

from what i can tell, VO hasnt been registered as a fuel, therefore it isnt recognized in any of these regulations. i couldnt find it mentioned in any of these regulations, but of course i didnt read all of them! so i think its pretty much up in the air.

after a brief, cursory look into this, im gunna go ahead and conclude that burning VO in a factory engine is not illegal, its just not recognized.


The WSJ article was linked from wikipedia, i didnt see a date either but it sounds like its a few years old.

well, the EPA hasnt put him out of business yet!http://www.goldenfuelsystems.com/index.php
they are still operating doing VO conversion systems. Their "Press" link doesnt mention the WSJ article, probably because it mentions that their systems might be illegal, thats not good for business! but its the same company.

Nope. I'm saying it isn't possible to obey every law because there are too many and far far too many of them are pointless or even wrong. Do I feel bad about that fact? Will I loose sleep over it? NOPE.

Do I think this country could be run better? YUP! Do I think politicians are skunks? ABSOLUTELY! They are like dirty diapers - they should be changed often - and for many of the same reasons. Do I get upset at people who have such direspect for our history and our war dead as to burn the flag? YES, I do! Do I get think less of someone who has complete and utter lack of respect for the country I love - including the office of the President? YOU BETCHA!

Now, all that aside, SHOW ME THE LAW. Not some enforcement person's interpretation, but the actual law. I deal with inspectors and enforcement personnel every day, and I can tell you that more often than not, when they issue a citation for a supposed violation, it gets knocked down, because it is just their interpretation. Iterpretations are a close relative of opinions - and we all know about those.

I'd like to use the article on other forums, and I know I'll get the "how current is the info" question. I didn't think the WSJ online would keep articles from years back - leads me to think it is relatively current.

Glad it's legal up here in canuckistan!