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  #1  
Old 08-27-2010, 06:49 AM
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Location: Hamilton Ontario Canada
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could I not just make "Lazy Biodiesel" question

Why could I not make "lazy" biodiesel by simply using the base amount of lye in my methoxide?

I came accross this paragraph on making biodiesel

Quote:
When too much lye is used the result can be a troublesome gel that is tough to do anything with. (See Glop soap.) When not enough lye is used the reaction does not go far enough so some unreacted WVO will be mixed with the biodiesel and glycerine. This will form three levels with biodiesel on top above unreacted WVO with glycerine on the bottom. If there is too much water in the WVO it will form soaps and settle right above the glycerine forming a fourth level in the container. This layer is not too easy to separate from the unreacted WVO and glycerine layers.
I only see two possible outcomes:

1) My biodiesel may contain unreacted WVO. Since I am running a WVO diesel mix, would this not be almost the same, a WVO biodiesel mix?

2) My WVO into biodiesel production ratio may not be as high as is could be. Could I not also just tap the biodiesel off the top and discard the unreacted wvo and glycerine?

Either way it would be a purer fuel than WVO diesel mix. Or, am I missing something?

Those who already make their own biodiesel say the proper process is not as difficult as it seems. This would allow me to get used to biodiesel production and perfect my equipment. I could refine my process later, once I get the hang of making "lazy biodiesel"

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  #2  
Old 08-27-2010, 09:46 AM
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Just do it right the first time.

Titration is not difficult if that's what you are intimidated by.

"Lazy" biodiesel sounds like a good way to make a big milkshake to me.

SteveM.
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  #3  
Old 08-27-2010, 10:40 AM
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Lazy with a hazardous process sounds like a way to make a crater or a toxic waste site. Hope I'm not your neighbor.

Cheap, cheap, cheap was the MO of a former employer, it got them customer complaints and special attention from OSHA.
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  #4  
Old 08-27-2010, 11:20 AM
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It won't wash right. Unless u put it in with methanol and hydroxide still in it.

I guess the hydroxide won't wreck the injection pump any faster than wvo wrecks the rings...
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  #5  
Old 08-27-2010, 12:57 PM
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Probably all that unreacted stuff will shorten the life of your engine. It took me quite a few tries to find good oil to make bio with. Titration is a pretty easy process and it will tell you right up front how much lye you need. Too much lye leaves a lot of unreacted stuff in the bio. If you don't wash it out, then that's lye in your engine (bad). If you do wash it out, all that lye makes the process a lot harder (gunk or semi-soap). It should not be too difficult to find oil that titrates at < 5ppm lye. Anything over that is too much trouble, in my opinion. Currently working on removing residue with a centrifuge, rather than wash, but the jury is still out on that one.
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  #6  
Old 08-27-2010, 01:12 PM
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Why bother with the Bio D route, there are so many complications. Just convert the vehicle with a well designed system like the Frybrid kit and be done with it. No more Lye or Methanol to deal with, no blowing up the garage and or house, and no unreacted Bio D to worry about. I made one batch of Bio D and immediately decided to go the WVO route and have been very happy with the Frybrid results. I had a different kit in the vehicle ( Mercedes Source) CRAP and after being towed too many times to count, I pulled the Mercedes Source electrically heated sysetm out and put in the Frybrid. I love my Frybrid Kit. I am not affiliated with Frybrid I am just a very happy customer. I spoke to the local Fire Department about storing 1000 gallons of WVO on my property and they said "no problem its not flamable like gasoline or diesel or bio D.
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  #7  
Old 08-27-2010, 02:20 PM
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Bio making ain't that hard

I have been doing it for the last 5 years and have never had a failed batch. If you are interested look up my posts on the biodiesel infopop forums under the same username as here. The cautions regarding doing it badly are well taken. It is near impossible to wash a poorly made batch but here are a couple of remedial measures that can save your butt. Too much lye and you have a really big pot of soap. Any significant amount of glycerol will make washing a slow painful process so drain well. This is where a conebottom tank really shines. Vinegar in small amounts will break an emulsion and you can wash it out in subsequent wash cycles. Heat is your friend in breaking emulsions as well. For a beginner don't scrimp on the methyl hydrate either a, good 20% will help in avoiding failed batches. Also most people don't mix near enough or long enough. Don't overheat the oil 125-130 degrees is best. otherwise the methyl hydrate starts to evaporate. Getting good oil to start with is key as well. Greek and sushi places don't abuse their oil by overheating or using it too long. Burger joints and Fish and chip places are the worst. Clean dry Canola no darker than light maple syrup is what you should be looking for. Do your research on an informative forum such as biodiesel infopop and good luck. Dan
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  #8  
Old 08-28-2010, 10:53 PM
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I'm really sick of statements containing "probably" or "I think" in threads about biodiesel production.
It's chemistry. Chemistry is science. It is not subjective or open to interpretation.

Also, all the FUD about blowing up your house is ridiculous. People have gasoline-fueled cars in their garages and highly-caustic drain cleaner under their sinks, and nobody freaks out about that. Everything is dangerous; that's why we have precautions and procedures for doing the most dangerous of the things we do.

Tl;dr - not knowing is not the same as knowing not, and fear is not the same thing as caution.

/soapbox
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  #9  
Old 08-28-2010, 10:59 PM
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Back on topic:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebird View Post
its not flamable like gasoline or diesel or bio D.
Diesel is barely flammable. Pour a bit on your driveway and try to light it. I bet you can't do it.
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  #10  
Old 08-29-2010, 07:38 PM
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Talking

[QUOTE=okto;2534278]I'm really sick of statements containing "probably" or "I think" in threads about biodiesel production.
It's chemistry. Chemistry is science. It is not subjective or open to interpretation.




And this chemistry is being utilized by people - often people who do not know a great deal about chemistry. Given the vastly complex nature of human behavior, I think that "I think" certainly figures into the formula. My $0.02 worth.
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  #11  
Old 08-29-2010, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okto View Post

Also, all the FUD about blowing up your house is ridiculous. People have gasoline-fueled cars in their garages and highly-caustic drain cleaner under their sinks, and nobody freaks out about that. Everything is dangerous; that's why we have precautions and procedures for doing the most dangerous of the things we do.


/soapbox
Not ridiculous. It happens, now and then in NNY where my parents live. BD production includes the introduction of a hot methanol lye mix into hot oil, usually in the presence of a mixer. If it's not an explosion proof mixer, like a drill with a paddle, sparking will make an adequate ignition source.

The circumstances that fuel is commercially or industrially pumped under, gasoline, avgas, aviation are regulated, and require explosion proof electronics, grounded piping, gas cans metal or plastic have to be conductive to arrest sparks. That's why blowups at the gas station are rare.
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You're four times
It's hard to
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when you're on
at the same time.
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  #12  
Old 08-29-2010, 11:52 PM
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X2 moon.
The diesel or bio may be ok, but they are not the only thing you have.
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  #13  
Old 08-30-2010, 09:43 PM
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Drills are not explosion proof!!

Look in the side of one when it is operating you will see sparks coming from the brushes. They are probably the least safe thing to use, even cordless drills produce sparks. The safe alternative is to use a Shaded pole AC motor, no brushes, no start switch. Not much torque but fine for mixing. Or a three phase motor but most folks don't have three phase power. An air drill is also a possible
solution. Pump mixing keeps the fluid away from the electricity but ventilation is still necessary. Cheers Dan
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  #14  
Old 08-31-2010, 02:17 PM
Gene
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Buffalo NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebird View Post
Why bother with the Bio D route, there are so many complications. Just convert the vehicle with a well designed system like the Frybrid kit and be done with it. No more Lye or Methanol to deal with, no blowing up the garage and or house, and no unreacted Bio D to worry about. I made one batch of Bio D and immediately decided to go the WVO route and have been very happy with the Frybrid results. I had a different kit in the vehicle ( Mercedes Source) CRAP and after being towed too many times to count, I pulled the Mercedes Source electrically heated sysetm out and put in the Frybrid. I love my Frybrid Kit. I am not affiliated with Frybrid I am just a very happy customer. I spoke to the local Fire Department about storing 1000 gallons of WVO on my property and they said "no problem its not flamable like gasoline or diesel or bio D.
One man's opinion. We brew, and well, by being FASTIDIOUS ABOUT THE TITRATION and final drying.

Brewing allows us to mix it with regular fuel.

Lazy man's brewing = IP rebuilt. A $1500 rebuilt is a high price to pay for being lazy. Buy D2 instead.

BigBlock Chev Dan has some great points.

We use compressed air to push the sodium methaoxide into a closed system. I'll blow my nuts off reloading before I do brewing.

The 55 gal drums of methanol are, well, intimidiating though. I am planning on an out building eventually.
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  #15  
Old 08-31-2010, 04:21 PM
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Google -- GL. 'Eco' BioDiesel processor.

--Does the whole job of making fuel with reasonable safety, -Usual caveats apply.

Its important to make your fuel Properly, Poorly made fuel will be nothing but trouble!

-It will either not 'wash' correctly, remain cloudy, block filters, precipitate out glyc. long after you think it wont and gum up your tank and fuel-system, be poorer than it could have been in cold weather....

It takes less time to make it Well, than try and sort out a cruddy batch due to slip-shod making!

--I should know, Ive been making BioDiesel for over 10 years, and running engines/cars on veggy 5 years before that!

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