opinions on this 1st step WVO usage plan - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JHZR2 · #1 12-09-2002, 03:39 PM

Hi,

I would really like to get into biodiesel production, however do not have the space. I would also like to save money, and reduce my usage of fossil fuels.
My thought is this:
-I do not want to plop down $250+ to do a svo/wvo system
-I would try to get a few 55 gal drums, and react, but have no space for it, so cannot do useful-sized batch reactions currently.
-I do want to get free wvo and burn it in my car; even 5 gallons per month would let me break even for the storage containers in 1 month with my plan, and Id certainly use more.

My idea is to get used fryer grease from a local restaurant. I dont know how much they get rid of when they swap, but I figure 5-10 gallons. Inside my apartment, I can pour the used grease through a double layer of cheesecloth (or some of those greasel filters if I want to spend more $$$) to clean it out. This used grease would then be mixed with kerosene(and a spalsh of rotella DFA) in a 50:50 ratio to reduce the viscosity, and reduce the effects of water in the wvo, so drying would hopefully be un-necessary. This would go into my tank to approximately 50:50 ratio of mix to petro-diesel, yielding around 75/25 final in the tank. I guess I could pour the filtered wvo in directly, but I like the idea of having the wvo heartily pre mixed with diesel or kerosene(whichever is currently cheaper) first in order to hopefully have a single-phase lower viscosity product going into my tank. I also would hope that this concoction would perhaps not gel up much when it gets cold out (my current #2d/roitella dfa is fine even in 12°F mornings), so I could use it year round.
I drive ~2000 miles a month, so this would save me a few dollars here and there, and thats what its really all about for me, that and the fact that I think its neat to use alternative fuels (I cant buy biodiesel around here). I wouldnt necessarily use it every tank (as I understand it can shorten engine life if used a lot) but I figure if I can use 10-20 gallons in ~75 per month, thats a little pocket change to go somewhere else.

I have done a lot of reading on the topic, know that people dump svo into their tanks directly, but I dont want to pay money for it. wvo(filtered) seems to be a good bet, if it is OK to use.

Any info/advice on this idea would be appreciated. Thanks

JMH

#2 12-10-2002, 11:07 AM

because it's really expensive in a town full of tourist campgrounds like this. After it has had a week or so for the worst of the crap to settle out, I heat my waste peanut oil (free from a famous local seafood restaurant) to just over 100C to get the water out of it, then filter it carefully through some restaurant-style coffee filters, then let it set again for another week or whatever it takes for the top 3/4 of each jug to be sparkling clear (red-brown, but transparent). (The bottom 1/4 I use in a little breadpan rig I made for our woodstove, which has a tendency to overheat the family room if real wood fires are made when it's above 20F outside.) In Dec - Feb, I am planning to run only 10%, although it's running just fine on a 20% blend right now (several 25F mornings, but I used the block heater), but last September I was up to 40% on a long trip with no problems.

I still need help figuring out this 19 page Virginia road tax form, though, and I haven't even looked at the Fed version yet.

I've been carrying spare fuel filters in case of a clogging problem ever since I started this (about 3000 miles ago) but haven't needed them so far, although the primary filter looks as if it's about due for its scheduled change anyway. All this is on an '85 300TD which is about to turn over 325,000 miles this week.

#3 12-10-2002, 12:39 PM

I have done some experimenting with clear plastic 1 gallon juice containers, and the results seem to confirm that when I pour the peanut oil into diesel fuel at anything near room temperature, the two immediately mix themselves thoroughly, so I don't worry about blending outside the tank first. Furthermore, I have one jug of 20% peanut / 80% #2 summer grade which has stood around for 6 weeks and has been subjected to temperatures from 80F down to 0F (at the latter temperature in our home freezer compartment it had become quite thick, but still pourable) and there is not the least sign of separation.

But do do something to get the water out, and if you heat the WVO, as I do, don't let the mix get over 120C or keep it over 100C any longer than it takes for the water to stop bubbling out, or you may convert some of the vegoil into long chain fatty acids, which is sometimes hypothesized as the reason for coking in some types of diesels, especially the newer, lower compression DI models.

rwthomas1 · #4 12-10-2002, 11:06 PM

I think it might be a little dangerous to be mixing kerosene and wvo in your apartment? I know you don't want to spend the bucks but those wvo systems seem to be the ticket to what you want to do. www.greasel.com It seems the heating of the wvo in the separate fuel tank takes care of the water? I don't know but a system like this would pay for itself pretty quick a 2k a month. RT

LightMan · #5 12-11-2002, 10:38 AM

I'd be careful, i've heard of a lot of bad ash deposits or sludging in engines using svo. I think it has to be heated to a certain temp, as well as the engine being warm, to effectively burn the stuff, which is what the greasel kit does I believe. Making biodiesel won't require that much more room I don't believe....get a small amount of lye and methanol and make 15 gallon batches....that should be 3 tanks worth....not that much effort...

I'm sure there is some biodiesel available somewhere within reasonable road trip range.....retailers are popping up everywhere.

Renntag · #6 03-14-2012, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightMan

I'd be careful,...I think it has to be heated to a certain temp, as well as the engine being warm, to effectively burn the stuff, ...

Interesting reading these old threads. At blends of 20%VO or less I dont think there is need for heat, but your money savings and "feel good" benefit of using less fossil fuel is minimal.

To truly save money, either transesterification needs to take place to strip the Glycerin molecule from the oil, or a heated piggyback fuel system must be added to inject at 170*F.

Transesterification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Biodiesel production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Biodiesel300TD · #7 03-14-2012, 07:34 PM

Wow this thread is 10 years old!

I hope he wasn't filtering and blending VO and kerosene in his apartment. With the messes I made in my garage I can't imagine having to clean those up in the house. One mis-step or tipped container and you've got gallons of VO or kerosene on the floor. Not to mention the smell of kerosene in the apartment. Headache much?

Deposit returned upon moving out, I think not.

JHZR2 · #8 03-14-2012, 07:39 PM

Never blended, never stocked hydrocarbons in the apt. That was a long time and many w123's ago...

Phillytwotank · #9 03-14-2012, 09:23 PM

WOW! i Applaud your effort and i feel your can understand your dalema with the whole apartment living situation.

I say IF you have access to high quality WVO the i say go for it. If you are looking for it to be Clean, Inexpensive or Easy then i say good luck.

I'd say that at warm summer season temps cleaned WVO straight into the diesel tank would be fine up to prolly 50%. No need to pre mix the VO and Diesel. Cleaning the WVO can be easily achieved by cooking the water out at 350-400*f then gravity filtration with this Greasecar 5-1 Micron Trade Size 1 Large Filter Bag | Greasecar Vegetable Fuel Systems.

For winter use or for more use of the WVO "either transesterification needs to take place to strip the Glycerin molecule from the oil, or a heated piggyback fuel system must be added to inject at (170*F)" With straight SVO.. higher heat the better to avoid bad ash deposits and all of that.

The biggest struggle in the whole deal is getting your hands on good WVO. if you've got that go for it!

JHZR2 · #10 03-14-2012, 09:31 PM

That was 10 years ago. Havent touched WVO since 2004 when my '83 got wrecked.

Renntag · #11 03-19-2012, 02:48 PM

Still interesting to get perspective from a ten year old thread.