A Good Paint Job?? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Pete Geither · #16 09-07-2006, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rchase

Hmmmm I hate to point this out but most new cars don't pass your paint test. Ever looked at the orange peel on some of the new cars coming out of detroit?

Im not convinced about the 5k paint job on Mercedes cars. The older Mercedes cars did come with glassurit paint which is not cheap but when you get into the 5K range your talking about a Rolls Royce or a Ferrari paint job. Those are not production cars like a Mercedes and tend to wear a more expensive coat of paint. A really nice factory level paint job can be had for a lot less than 5k even with good paint.

I don't like "show car" paint jobs myself. A paint job that is identical to factory is what I would want even on the most high end car. It kind of irritates me these people who destroy the historical accuracy of high valued cars by painting them to a level that they were never painted from the factory. Its sort of like giving Joan of Arc breast augmentation.

With all due respect Robert, if you are in the business of painting cars, I would be most happy to be advised in how to paint a Mercedes to look like a factory job for a "lot less" than 5 K. I used to buy gas for 35 cents a gallon to and I used to work for $1 an hour. Rolls Royce and Ferrari paint jobs can go in the 50K to 100k range.

rchase · #17 09-07-2006, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Geither

With all due respect Robert, if you are in the business of painting cars, I would be most happy to be advised in how to paint a Mercedes to look like a factory job for a "lot less" than 5 K. I used to buy gas for 35 cents a gallon to and I used to work for $1 an hour. Rolls Royce and Ferrari paint jobs can go in the 50K to 100k range.

Pete,

No disrespect intended but it's in your financial interest to sell people your highest end services. Better deals can be had that look decent on the car. Implying that anything under 5k is going to be completely unacceptable is just spreading misinformation. While you look at paint jobs all day many people don't and probably would not notice the difference. Many of the cars on this forum are worth less than 5K. I don't see anything wrong with someone getting a decent paint job and not spending a fortune on it. I have had many cars painted and have had great results for less than 5k. When the prices start to rise into the 4-5K range I start looking for a shop with less overhead.

Additionally there is a big difference between a car that sits in a garage all day that is polished with a diaper and a car that is actually driven and subject to door dings and people being near it.

Pete Geither · #18 09-07-2006, 09:41 AM

Points noted Robert. There is nothing wrong with your way of thinking.

rchase · #19 09-07-2006, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Geither

Points noted Robert. There is nothing wrong with your way of thinking.

Thanks

Just for informational sake what exactly goes into an MB factory job vs the paint on a robotically painted domestic/japanese car vs a Rolls or a Ferrari?

I notice on my 1982 the paint is "thicker" than the paint on my 1999. I notice on a lot of the domestic and japanes stuff the paint seems really thin.

Richard Wooldridge · #20 09-07-2006, 10:17 AM

I'm "on the road" this week, so don't have access to my factory manual, but i remember reading in the paint section that one test of a factory paint job is that the paint cannot be too thick, it is measured with a tool, and if it is too thick it has to be removed and repainted. I'm not sure why this is, maybe Pete can illuminate us on this point?

Interesting thread so far!

Pete Geither · #21 09-07-2006, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rchase

Thanks

Just for informational sake what exactly goes into an MB factory job vs the paint on a robotically painted domestic/japanese car vs a Rolls or a Ferrari?

I notice on my 1982 the paint is "thicker" than the paint on my 1999. I notice on a lot of the domestic and japanes stuff the paint seems really thin.

I can't say exactly if there are any differences these days between the Euros and the Asians. I'll bet they are both sprayed robotically and the real differences are in the product they use. I was always under the assumption that the "high end" cars, at least in the not too distant past, were all sprayed by hand and meticulous detailing to remove imperfections was done between coats. Don't know if this is still true with those cars, but FWIW, in 25 years in business, I can honestly, but not ashamedly admit, that we have never done a perfect job. There has always been one thing or another that prevented me from saying the P word. On a lot of the older high end cars with factory finish,,, from what I could tell,,, they were perfect. That is where you would get into a 50K paint job on an old Rolls. I have no desire to ever go there.

Pete Geither · #22 09-07-2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Wooldridge

I'm "on the road" this week, so don't have access to my factory manual, but i remember reading in the paint section that one test of a factory paint job is that the paint cannot be too thick, it is measured with a tool, and if it is too thick it has to be removed and repainted. I'm not sure why this is, maybe Pete can illuminate us on this point?

Interesting thread so far!

About 3 years ago we worked on a brand new BMW 5 series that had 8, yes I said 8 coats of paint and clearcoat on it, from the factory. That thing had over 20 mils of material on it which in my opinion is WAY too much. The problem with too much paint is that it will more rapidly break down and start cracking here and there. The way I test for paint buildup is with an electronic mil guage. Any time I go to buy a car I take it with me and check every panel. If it shows a buildup of paint on a panel I start looking for the reason why. Any bondo shoots the needle off the scale. My SL was painted on the left side and the only reason I can guess was because of some imperfection or scratch, as all the panels are original.

alabbasi · #23 09-07-2006, 01:10 PM

As someone who has had a lot of work done on cars in the past, I think I am now able to tell the difference in a quality job vs a poor quality job.

Repairing the car below with bodywork and paint cost me less then $5000 and it's an awesome job.

Pete Geither · #24 09-07-2006, 08:00 PM

Looks great ! Glad to see that your expectations were met.

Strife · #25 09-08-2006, 12:54 AM

I don't think the paint of today is anything like the paint of 30 years ago. Firstly, I distinctly remember painting with car paint that contained lead (hopefully, most of it is out of my system by now...). Secondly, the volatiles of the older paints have made their manufacture illegal today, at least in the US. So now, there is this basecoat/clearcoat system...and water based paint...I haven't kept up with it but I wonder if better chemicals have made up for more dangerous chemicals in terms of results. But I will say that I remember seeing orange-peeled cars in showrooms in the 70's, and I'm looking at a 2002 Chrysler with orange peel in my driveway today. Some things never change.

We never did quite master orange peel as punk teen-agers who actually did paint cars outdoors!! Our solution was very inefficient; put down a lot of paint, then sand with extremely fine wetordri (1000+) sandpaper and buff a lot a week later after baking the car in the summer sun! Seriously. And with a lot of muscle and sweat (and paint much cheaper than today's paint), this actually worked.

greasybenz · #26 09-11-2006, 01:20 AM

wow i didnt see this thread until i was searching for detailing my earl schiebed 300D

Overall im very happy with the outcome of the paint job. The redwood city earl schiebs has been great with me, any imperfection i find i show them and they fix it at no extra charge. My dad had a $2k paintjob done by my uncle on his 64 mustang, which in my opinion is MB quality but it was only $2k because of the body work involved. My uncle said high quality paint jobs arent as expensive as people think, nor do people need to dish out alot of $$$ to get a top of the line paint job either. It all comes down to the cars condition. My uncle does high quality paint jobs and that is why he has porsche's, bimmers, MB's, volvos and classic muscle cars in his shop.

When he took a look at my car he was surprised that there was no "gun chatter" as he explains it. He says usually paint guns tend to chatter because of old clogged paint in the gun or the compressor acts up and it shows up in the car when dried. But there was none! he told me and i quote "for $500 es mui chingone!"

Translation, for $500 its *****in'

He said for me to wait a month to let it fully dry and harden and take it to him to detail it and bring out more shine to it!

tr1cky · #27 09-29-2006, 02:38 PM

Quality takes talent, precision, tools, materials and preparation all working harmoniously. Extract a single factor and a good paint job can be junk.

Preperation is probably the one element most often neglected. Treating problem areas, whether they be dents, rust, misalignment, warping, buckling, etc.

It's easy to degloss, sand and repaint. That's not the right way. A good paint job will start with repairing the metal to be as close to perfect as possible.

Then from there, meticulous care in painting and finishing.

I have no problem paying for quality, but unlike other things I don't want an illusion of quality. I want the real thing.

Hatterasguy · #28 09-29-2006, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tr1cky

Quality takes talent, precision, tools, materials and preparation all working harmoniously. Extract a single factor and a good paint job can be junk.

Preperation is probably the one element most often neglected. Treating problem areas, whether they be dents, rust, misalignment, warping, buckling, etc.

It's easy to degloss, sand and repaint. That's not the right way. A good paint job will start with repairing the metal to be as close to perfect as possible.

Then from there, meticulous care in painting and finishing.

I have no problem paying for quality, but unlike other things I don't want an illusion of quality. I want the real thing.

Well said, I agree 100%. And to add, anyone who knows what they are looking at can always spot a quality vs a bargin job.

rchase · #29 09-29-2006, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tr1cky

Quality takes talent, precision, tools, materials and preparation all working harmoniously. Extract a single factor and a good paint job can be junk.

Preperation is probably the one element most often neglected. Treating problem areas, whether they be dents, rust, misalignment, warping, buckling, etc.

It's easy to degloss, sand and repaint. That's not the right way. A good paint job will start with repairing the metal to be as close to perfect as possible.

Then from there, meticulous care in painting and finishing.

I have no problem paying for quality, but unlike other things I don't want an illusion of quality. I want the real thing.

Agreed. But there are a number of people out in the market grosly overcharging for paint work. A good paint job does not have to cost 5k on a Mercedes regardless of what the old wives tales say.

Additionally its good to match the paint job with the car. If your painting a 123 chassis 300D paying more than market value for the car just for paint is stupid. Corners can be cut and still have a presentable paint job. Not everone in the parking lot comes over to your car and get on their knees to look down the car to see how much orange peeling you have and spend 20 minutes staring at it. If they did there are plenty of new cars out of Japan and Detroit that they could have fun laughing at.

I like my cars painted the way they came from the factory. Many paint shops go above and beyond the quality of an original paint job. Im also somewhat realistic and realize that paint is the least important part of my car. While its the "pretty" part on the outside its also the part that gets scratched in parking lots and faded by the sun. Unless your car spends most of its time in the garage being rubbed by a diaper its exposed to damaging elements in the wild. Unless its just been freshly painted EVERY car thats ever been driven on the road more than 10,000 miles or so has scratches and damage somewhere. Additionally what good is a beautiful show car paint job when you have imperfect trim and other 20 year old parts on the outside of your car? An exterior restoration is not just about paint.

Hatterasguy · #30 09-29-2006, 11:26 PM

rchase of course you brought up a very good point. How much $$$ should one put into a car? Well everyones situation is different, maybe the car is only driven on weekends and has a lot of value to the currant owner. Of course a daily driver one hopes to get a few more years out of would fall into a different catigory.

Poor work is poor work, I agree that quality paint jobs can be had for less. It depends on how much prep work is needed, some cars need very little. One needs to weigh quality vs price. Paying more will not automatically get you a better job.

Btw I only look at the paint as 1 part in an exterior restoration. One cannot forget that all the seals need to be replaced along with all the exterior metal. If the glass is marginal throw that in as well.