Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Do It Yourself Links & Resources > Bodywork - Repair, Paint, Tools, Tips & Tricks

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-20-2003, 02:25 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Canton, OH
Posts: 19
Lightbulb Leaking may not be due to windshield gasket

Let me start by saying that I have found ths site invaluable in my quest to deal with the many issues that my 1983 300TDT 320.000 miles has had and some issues that still need to be addressed.

I don't post because I can't type. I use the hunt and peck method and I am physically challange at that. Most of you would be able the type faster using your toes than I can at full throttle.
Anyway, I have something to add to this site that I could not drag up via the search.
Since I bought the wagon I have had water coming inside the car at the top of the windshield. It dripped a little from the reveal molding both passenger and drivers sides. It would drip right on your left or right knee depending on which seat you were sitting on. This would happen after a rain or a heavy dew in the morning. The water would gather in this reveal molding. (MB service manual 68-400) Additionally, the A pillars would be damp. Sometimes all the way down to the foot wells. And after good rains the floors would be wet under the floor mats.
I cleaned every drain I read about on this forum. Except the back two sun roof drains. I still haven't found them.
This spring driving in a torrential storm coming out of Fla. My daughter and I had to bail the water as it was coming in. It rained for two hours and it was not fun. Funny but not fun. Getting home I did what every other member would have done. I read all the posts on the windshield seals and decided to procede. Coincidently, a friend was having water problems with the rear window on his newly purchased 1980 240d. We pulled that one first. It took 4 or 5 tries to learn how to install the window correctly. Do not bend the decorative molding !when replacing the windshields. Spend as much time as possible cutting out the old rubber without bending the aluminum.
After fixing his without a leak. I pulled my front windshield, being extra carefull not to bend the aluminum molding.
The PO had the windshield replaced before and the clown that did the install used generous amounts of 3M polyurethane adhesive. It took countless hours of work to remove the adhesive remains without grinding out the paint.
By the way, curiously there was no rust on the body seam where the window seal pulls onto. It looked new. I replaced the windshield seal, I also bought the MB window sealing compound. I did it right (like we all do), I waited a couple of days to let it sit before taking the car out in the rain. When I did take the car out in the rain. (I live in Ohio, it has rained every day this sping I think) The same leak was still there! What the ***** I researched some more and emailed for help. Thanks Fred.
To get to the point. I knew that the windshield seal was not leaking. I removed the interior top reveal molding (the piece that the sun visors rest in) and peeled back the headliner to see that the SUNROOF DRAIN PAN SNOUTS ARE RUSTED
__________________
1983 300DT 173,000miles sold
1983 300TDT 320,000miles sold
1985 735i 189,000miles sold
1986 528e 210,000 miles sold
1991 740 Volvo 250,000 miles
2002 VW Jetta TDI 32,000 miles sold
1995 E300D 137,000 miles
2004 Dodge Sprinter 26,000 miles
1986 325e BMW 94,000 miles
1986 325e BMW 148,700 miles
Mike
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-20-2003, 02:31 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Canton, OH
Posts: 19
Sorry I didn't finish. I must have timed out typing.

The steel snouts that connect to the plastic drain tubes are both rust out.
The water was not going out the drains but coming in the car.
I am now looking for a used or new drain pan.

Thanks,

Mike
__________________
1983 300DT 173,000miles sold
1983 300TDT 320,000miles sold
1985 735i 189,000miles sold
1986 528e 210,000 miles sold
1991 740 Volvo 250,000 miles
2002 VW Jetta TDI 32,000 miles sold
1995 E300D 137,000 miles
2004 Dodge Sprinter 26,000 miles
1986 325e BMW 94,000 miles
1986 325e BMW 148,700 miles
Mike
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-23-2003, 11:01 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Canton, OH
Posts: 19
This morning I took some digital photos of the rusted drains. They are to large to submit as is. If someone would like to edit them or reduce their size I will email the photos.
Thanks,

Mike
__________________
1983 300DT 173,000miles sold
1983 300TDT 320,000miles sold
1985 735i 189,000miles sold
1986 528e 210,000 miles sold
1991 740 Volvo 250,000 miles
2002 VW Jetta TDI 32,000 miles sold
1995 E300D 137,000 miles
2004 Dodge Sprinter 26,000 miles
1986 325e BMW 94,000 miles
1986 325e BMW 148,700 miles
Mike
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-23-2003, 02:32 PM
R Leo's Avatar
Stella!
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: En te l'eau Rant
Posts: 5,393
Visor trim removed to show drains

Posted for Dino.
Attached Thumbnails
Leaking may not be due to windshield gasket-interiortopmoldremov.jpg  
__________________
Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-23-2003, 02:33 PM
R Leo's Avatar
Stella!
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: En te l'eau Rant
Posts: 5,393
Detail of pass side roof drain (rusted)

Posted for Dino.
Attached Thumbnails
Leaking may not be due to windshield gasket-passdrainrust1.jpg  
__________________
Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-23-2003, 02:34 PM
R Leo's Avatar
Stella!
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: En te l'eau Rant
Posts: 5,393
Detail of driver side roof drain

Posted for Dino...

ACK! This is grim. Aren't there actually FOUR drains? If so, you might consider pulling the headliner out and inspecting those other two drains as well.

If you cannot find a replacement roof pan, it might be possible to Ospho the heck out of those stubs and JB weld some suitable plastic tubing in place as a replacement nipple for the drain tubing to attach onto.

Not a pleasant job by any stretch of the imagination.


Good luck!
R Leo
Attached Thumbnails
Leaking may not be due to windshield gasket-drivedrainrust.jpg  
__________________
Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

Last edited by R Leo; 06-23-2003 at 02:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-23-2003, 03:00 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: central Texas
Posts: 17,277
"friend was having water problems with the rear window on his newly purchased 1980 240d. "
For your friend....tech bulletins.....


67_009 APR 82 Rear Window Sealing Frame - Modified

97_012 APR 84 Body - Mercedes Body Seam Sealer Precaution

97_015 SEP 86 Body - Applying PVC Undercoating and Seam Sealer

72_025A MAR 83 Window Frame - Reveal Moulding Replacement

from: http://alldata.com/TSB/35/80350202.html
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-23-2003, 03:27 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Old Lyme, Connecticut
Posts: 3,596
Dino,

If you cannot find a new or used part you may be able to repair the problem with POR-15, a product that I found on this site. I have purchased some but did not find the time to use it before the weather and work, as well as my daughter's schedule for departure ran me out of time (she took the car to California earlier this month and is using it out there).

The product line up includes fiberglass and putty filling materials and techniques that use the POR-15 to stop the rust. You might find one of these solutions worthwhile for situation. Hope this helps, Jim
__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-23-2003, 04:23 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Canton, OH
Posts: 19
R Leo,
Thank you for posting the pictures of my sunroof drain stubs.
They are seriously rusted and I'm concerned about their soundness. I need to inspect their insides as well. You brought up a good question. How do the rear drain stubs look? I guess need to think about removing the headliner.

Jimsmith,
I have heard of por-15 before. I've used extend to neutralize rust before. These stubs are rusted quite severely and may need more work.

Has anyone pulled the sunroof drain pan ?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike
__________________
1983 300DT 173,000miles sold
1983 300TDT 320,000miles sold
1985 735i 189,000miles sold
1986 528e 210,000 miles sold
1991 740 Volvo 250,000 miles
2002 VW Jetta TDI 32,000 miles sold
1995 E300D 137,000 miles
2004 Dodge Sprinter 26,000 miles
1986 325e BMW 94,000 miles
1986 325e BMW 148,700 miles
Mike
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-23-2003, 08:11 PM
coachgeo's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: TX between Dallas and OK
Posts: 1,793
hmmmmmm

I really dont know what I'm looking at in these pics. Is that a rubber tube that is suppose to slip over a metal pipe...... of which is now rusted away?

If so... how about brazing in copper pipe to replace the rusted out one. Eleminate the problem copper does not rust. You could maybe cut out some of the rusted away metal if it is more than just the pipe that rusted out and weld or screw? in a plate with the copper pipe already brazed to it.

Just my .02. Yeah I know. easier said than done. I can see this working but I dont have the skills to do something like that myself.

I have a leak in my trunk I cant find.
__________________
"If anyone knows other lessons I need to learn, please tell me. I'm tired of learning them the hard way".
by JerryBro


The Glow Plug Wait: This waiting period is a moment of silence to pay honor to Rudolph Diesel. The longer you own your diesel the more honor you will give him". by SD Blue

My normal daily life; either SNAFUed- Situation Normal... All Fouled Up, or FUBARed- Fouled Up Beyond All Repair

62 UNIMOG Camper w/617 Turbo, 85 300SD daily driver- both powered by blended UCO fuels
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-24-2003, 08:23 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Canton, OH
Posts: 19
Coachgeo,

Yes, the black tube is a drain line running down the A pillars. As far as I can tell it is suppose to fit over the steel spout coming off the black painted sunroof (pan?). I was able to move the black tube away from and back onto the steel spouts. I'm thinking that someone years ago while cleaning the drain tubes pushed them slightly moving them off the steel enough that rusting started. At this point I think I will have to pull the drain pan and have it welded. This will require messing with the sunroof and the headliner both of which are in good shape now.

Taking the molding off, the rear view mirror(which just pulls off with a lot of effort) and the sun visors is not that hard. I recommend doing this to check for this problem if the car has been leaking at all.
I would guess that the black drain tubes must have been glued to the steel spouts a one time and the glue failed with age and heat.
I haven't alot of time right now to tackle this project so i will be tarping the car untill I can get to it.

Thanks all,

Mike
__________________
1983 300DT 173,000miles sold
1983 300TDT 320,000miles sold
1985 735i 189,000miles sold
1986 528e 210,000 miles sold
1991 740 Volvo 250,000 miles
2002 VW Jetta TDI 32,000 miles sold
1995 E300D 137,000 miles
2004 Dodge Sprinter 26,000 miles
1986 325e BMW 94,000 miles
1986 325e BMW 148,700 miles
Mike
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-24-2003, 08:44 AM
R Leo's Avatar
Stella!
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: En te l'eau Rant
Posts: 5,393
Brazing is not the answer

To safely make a good joint (brazing or sliver soldering) and eliminate the risk of torching your car you will have to remove that pan. IMHO, the POR-15 - epoxy - or other unspecified goo is going to be the best route.

my .02
R
__________________
Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-02-2003, 07:41 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Powder Springs, Georgia, USA
Posts: 207
I need to check my 85 300TDs drains. Does anyone know if the rear sunroof drains go through the door pillars or through the back of the car ?
__________________
David McDonald
1981 240D
1985 300D (wrecked)
1985 300TD 365,000 miles
1969 Mustang Fastback
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-17-2003, 08:38 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: South Florida
Posts: 53
gotta take it out

As I type this my 85 300td sunroof pan is in the garage with the POR-15 based repair drying. I had the same exact problem, and decided to just bite the bullet and remove the entire sunroof, pan, and do a complete repair. Luckily, mine only had the rusted pipe problem really bad on one side. The other front side was starting to rust, but had not started to "disappear". The back drains were fine. I think the fronts do most of the draining, and are most vunerable when they clog.

It's not all that bad of a job to get the pan out, but there is this real gooey foam weatherstripping that makes a mess of your entire shop! Sticks to EVERYTHING. I striped all that old gonk off, and will find something better to replace it.

I filled what was left of the rusted pipe with clay, then used POR-15 and fiberglass to construct a new pipe. Of course, all the other rusty areas were treated to POR-15 also.

I think if I were hiring out this job, I would probably use in interior shop as the primary contractor, to remove the headliner and pan, then take the pan to a rust specialist body shop. Then, let the interior shop reinstall the whole thing. I think a regular shop wouldn't have the finesse needed to work with that old headliner.

Good luck.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-22-2003, 01:17 PM
GottaDiesel's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,564
I would LOVE to know if anyone has actually removed their sunroof pan and re-done it. I found some serious crap that has me quite POed... but I want to fix it...

So... if anyone has any info... bring it on!

Pete
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page