SoCal Mercedesshop, Meguiars Detailing Day In August - Page 6 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

placo1 · #76 08-26-2002, 02:01 PM

Ok I know everyone has been wondering about the details of this coming Saturday so here they are. Please read all details because all your questions are answered in this post.

- Meguiars will be holding this clinic in their World Headquarters at 17991 Mitchell South, Irvine, CA. Two Detail Bays will be prepared for us. The clinic is set to start 8:30AM SHARP and will end at about 3PM. Try to be there around 8:00AM

- The event is a detailing clinic specifically designed to help us learn how to repair and perfect Mercedes Paint. It will start with a short presentation regarding the do's and dont's.

- The clinic will not be covering the interior or other surfaces although questions can certainly be asked (IE Leather, Glass, Rubber)

- We will then head out to the garage to continue the clnic. Your cars will need to be clean! They will be bringing out the rotary buffer for this clinic and we will be learning how to use it! Don't worry we will each have a chance to try the buffer on a test panel to prevent any damaged cars. You May Try the rotary on your vehicle at your own risk!

- Meguairs will do a test spot on each of our cars and make recommendations regarding which of their products to use.

- Meguiars will also use my car as an example only on the decklid to show a before and after.

- They will have all of their products on hand (INCLUDING THE FINAL DETAILER) for us to try on our cars.

- Unfortunately they most likely won't be able to sell any products due to the lack in staffing on Labor Day Weekend, HOWEVER they will be passing out a very generous goody bag to each of the members signed up. They may have enough left over for the guests too! Mike's told me what is in the bag and I'm sure everyone will get more than their fix for the day with what's inside!

- After we have finished going over the cars there should be enough time left over for questions.

Now here is a final list of the members who have signed up:

1. Suginami (Paul), One Guest
2. Hi-Power (Ernesto), One Guest
3. Mark Cummins, Two Guests (Possibly the two dogs! )
4. macavity (Jim), One Guest
5. SV, One Guest
6. Me, One Guest
7. sd_lurker (Mike)
8. Ed Richardson
9. ML Dude - Ed
10. JCE (John), One Guest
11. William420 (William)
12. Phalcon 51
13. David C Klasse (David)
14. Doug Kinney
15. Class C - Jay, 2 Guests
16. JamE55
17. Luwin1026, 1 Guest
18. htc4roc - Hank
19. krk230 - Karan

Unfortunately no more members can be added at this point in time unless someone else drops out.

DIRECTIONS:
- Get Onto the 405 Freeway
- Take the McArthur Exit (John Wayne Airport)
- Turn Right On McArthur Blvd
- Turn Left On Red Hill Ave
- Turn Right Onto Mitchell South. (Meguiars is on the left # 17991)

Mitchell is a circle and if you happen to enter Mitchell North follow it around and you'll see Meguiars on your right.

Any questions?

Looking forward to seeing everyone there this Saturday and I think not only will it be very educational but also a great time.

#77 08-29-2002, 10:56 AM

I just found it I can't make, I have to go to work I just couldn't get the day off.

And I wanted to go this so badly too. Oh well, have fun guys, and take some pics and post them here!

placo1 · #78 08-30-2002, 03:08 PM

Hi again,

Just had a few more details I received from Mike as well and an updated list of members going to the clinic.

- For those who arrive early THERE ARE FOUR PARKING SPOTS WHICH ARE COVERED. The cars parked in this carport will be worked on first, so it may pay to get there early.

- Mike is going to try and introduce us to the Customer Care employees at Meguiars so that we can get a feel for who we talk to when we have questions.

- Meguiars has graciously offered to provide us with lunch which is greatly appreciated.

Finally the updated list:

1. Suginami (Paul), One Guest
2. Hi-Power (Ernesto), One Guest
3. Mark Cummins, Two Guests (Possibly the two dogs! )
4. macavity (Jim), One Guest
5. Luwin1026, 1 Guest
6. Me, One Guest
7. sd_lurker (Mike)
8. Ed Richardson
9. ML Dude - Ed
10. JCE (John), One Guest
11. William420 (William)
12. Phalcon 51
13. David C Klasse (David)
14. Doug Kinney
15. Class C - Jay, 2 Guests
16. htc4roc - Hank

So I guess that makes 16 Cars and 10 Guests. I'll see everyone bright and early tomorrow morning! Please PM me with any final questions.

Ed Richardson · #79 08-31-2002, 02:32 AM

I appologize for canceling at the last minute. My daughter and family arrived for a birthday party Friday afternoon, and are going to spend the night and day (Saturday). Thanks for getting the Meguiar Day, sorry I missed out. Ed Richardson

JCE · #80 09-01-2002, 03:57 PM

I had a great day at the Meguiar's detailing clinic, and thanks to Placo1 for organizing the day and to Mequiar's for hosting it (including lunch and sample products - wax, microfiber towel, applicator sponges, trim detailer, and car wash solution no less!!!!)

I learned a great amount of info from the truly knowledgeable and gifted Mike Phillips, corporate writer at Mequiar's, and plan on buying his book when it comes out. He is an artist with a rotary buffer, and demonstrated techniques and product applications on individual MercedesShop member vehicles. (Cat scratches, overspray, discolorations, clay techniques, etc.). What could have turned into a day of marketing hype was instead a straightforward presentation on just how involved a job professionally polishing and waxing a car really is, and how chemically/physically complex these compounds can become in the pursuit of ease-of-use by average consumers. (Such as polishing compounds that degrade in size as they are being used from fairly course 'cutting' to ultra-fine 'haze removing'; or aggresive compounds that feel like hand lotion, while a more mild compound feels like coarse liquid sandpaper; or sand paper that is electrostatically assembled to present a uniform grit on the paint, instead of an average grit size!)

Also got to meet some new MercedesShopmembers, and renew acquaintance with those previously met - this forum really does attract some nice people! Thanks again to all who organized and attended.

suginami · #81 09-01-2002, 08:41 PM

Yeah, it was certainly worth it!

I'd like to thank Mike Phillips for sacrificing a Saturday for us.

He was such an interesting guy - a certifiable car nut - and had 20 years of experience and great stories to share with us.

It seems that every car he's owned he cut the top off and turned into a convertible - even a 59 Cadillac sedan de ville. He also puts "big-block Chevrolet V-8's" into every car he's owned, too.

I can't believe how much free product he gave us all. The stuff must cost at least $50-$60 if you went out and bought it yourself.

He even took the time and looked at most of our cars and examined the paint and the trouble spots. Even used the paint thickness analyzer to see how many millimeters thick our paint was. I learned that my paint has been seriously buffed out on the hood (down to almost 3.0 millimeters), and that my front right fender had been repainted (well over 7.0 millimeters of paint).

He made the paint on my hood shinier and glossier than it's ever been. I think I'm going to abandon the Zaino and go back to Meguiar's.

placo1 · #82 09-02-2002, 01:51 PM

I have to say that the clinic wen't better than I ever imagined. Mike's knowledge is vast and he didn't miss a beat when answering everyone's questions.

For those of you who missed it, you essentially missed a very detailed explanation of how polishes and waxes work.

You also missed some very essential hands on training from someone who makes buffing look like an art form. I've now learned what it takes to buff a car and I also realized all the mistakes I've made in the past. The first technique that I've never seen before is how to pick up a polish line. This essentially prevents you from splattering all the polish on the rest of the car. I also learned never to pick up a buffer while it's in motion, yet another way to prevent you and your car from wearing the polish. Probably the most important technique I learned was the proper movement of the buffer over the paint.

Mike took my car into the garage and immediately everyone could see what I wanted to get rid of. Fine scratches and swirls throught out the paint caused by previous owners. We then followed the standard procedure of least abrasive polish until we found the one that works. The dual action polisher is where we stopped and this is what took all of the scratches off my paint. For those of you who are concerned about paint loss, we measured the same area before and after polishing and only .1mm was removed (from 4.4 to 4.3mm). Now the rest of the car needs the attention that was given to my rear deck.

For those of you looking at polishing your cars take a look at the Meguiars diminishing abrasive line of polishes. This will remove the scratches in the clear and leave a highly polished smooth surface. Always step down to a lesser abrasive after removing the initial scratches. This will remove the slight haze of a stronger polish and leave a mirrored surface. We finished with Gold Class and Final Inspection which brought out a deep reflective surface.

The goody bags are just icing on the cake. I never expected that many products to be handed out, some of which are impossible to find in most autoparts stores.

For those of you looking at waxes, keep your eyes peeled for some new products they have on the horizon. By the way they had all of the products out for us to see including engine shine (no yellowing!), tire gel, trim detailer, and at least 15 different waxes and two new types of clay which by the way are fantastic. My favorite is still the gold class, shine and depth like no other! If you want to see all of their products go to their website, you can purchase everything there.

Thank you to everyone who made it and I hope you all enjoyed it. Mike thank you for arranging all of this and going the extra mile on a saturday to help fellow car enthusiasts.

ML Dude · #83 09-03-2002, 12:07 PM

Hey,

I'd like to pipe in and add my kudos to Mike Phillips and the team at Meguiars. I got some valueable information and help with learning to take care of my newest addition...with black paint!

The day was enjoyable and I sure hope we organize more of these "lunch and learn" topical get togethers!

Like Paul, I'm switching back to Meguiars! My Siamese Samson is grateful too, he get's to keep his nails awhile longer......

William420 · #84 09-04-2002, 12:42 AM

I would like to express my appreciation to Mike Phillips and the Meguiars team. I've learned quite a few things thanks to his vast knowledge. Props to Placo1 organizing this clinic. I had a great time with everyone. Mercedesshop members are very friendly! Thanks again!!! Hope to meet all of you again soon!

Phalcon51 · #85 09-04-2002, 05:43 AM

Many thanks to Mike Phillips, Meguiar's and our own Placo1 for organizing and putting on the detail clinic last Saturday. It was great to meet some of the other Mercedes Shop members and put faces to the names.

Mike is one of those rare people who truly enjoys what he does and has the gift of being able to teach it to others with enthusiasm and humor. I learned quite a bit and I plan to use Meguiar's products exclusively on all my cars and bikes. I liked Mike's idea of staying within a product line as they are all designed to complement one another.

His technique of picking up a line of polish with the rotary buffer was great, too. It's one of those things that are simple, make sense, and work. Watching Mike at work turning a paint job full of fine spiderweb scratches into a deep glossy liquid-like surface was an education in itself. I was really impressed with how quickly the finish improved after only a few passes with the rotary buffer and 2 or 3 different grades of cleaner/polish.

Mike's technical knowledge of each of the products is equally impressive. I learned about diminishing abrasives, electrostatically coated finishing sand paper that orients the grit with the points out and the flat surfaces toward the paper (makes sense, eh?), how oils in the polish are actually good for the paint as they replenish the oils lost to evaporation, detergent washing, etc., and how they displace the water that would otherwise get in to the pores of the paint and cause oxidation, and many other interesting and valuable bits of information.

In addition to the invaluable information and hands-on experience that we recieved, we all got goody bags with about $60 worth of products to take home and try. Everybody left with big smiles on their faces and visions of brilliantly shining cars in their eyes.

I've always been impressed with Meguiar's products; now I'm equally impressed with the people that make up the company.

All in all it was a very worthwhile day. Thanks.

Gary

P.S. Anyone remember the name of the guy with the black Porsche? I need to talk to him about racing karts.

bcgreen · #86 09-04-2002, 12:36 PM

I am curious, since you guys were there, and I was there a couple of years ago, why when he tried to remove those spiderweb marks in the paint, why didn't he just use his DA(Mequiars brand) with #82? It says DA Machine swirl/polish on the container. Why would he go with the high speed polisher, which in the hand of an inexperienced person can get you in trouble in a split second? When we were there he wouldn't even use the the rotary buffer because of that potential hazard. Also what line of polish did he use with that rotary buffer?

JCE · #87 09-04-2002, 01:48 PM

Paul has it pretty straight on the rotary, practice on a junk hood or something. Mike did say that he wouldn't use the high speed rotary on my car - "never put a high speed rotary on a car that doesn't need it" were his words, I believe. For its intended use - maintaining a good finish - he said that the Porter Cable was fine (He used one in applying and removing wax on several cars).

Bottom line: The high speed rotary does heavy work, but work means removing paint/clearcoat, as scratch removal means grinding the paint 'plains' on each side of the scratch down to the level of the scratch valley floor. Surface temp of the hood measured over 40 degrees warmer than surrounding areas on one car while removing scratches. The PC does much less work/paint removal, but really makes polish or wax application a lot more easy and less time consuming.

suginami · #88 09-04-2002, 02:05 PM

This is the first time that Mike Phillips has done this at Meguiar's since he was just hired.

The guy that usually does it is Mike Pennington, and I guess he is a chemist or something in charge of research.

From how Mike explained it, the DA is just a "jiggle machine", and is good at only getting out the most minor imperfections. Also, #82 is more polish than anything else. It has very small amounts of abrasion. It is for paint that is new or like-new.

Also, he explained that Meguiar's really never lets the average Joe use the De Walt rotary buffer because you need to be an experience professional. Mike Pennington, in particular, doesn't like to use the DeWalt rotary buffer in front of customers in fear that they may go home and buy one, and then ruin their paint. Mike Phillips exlained again and again that you need to practice on something else, like a hood on a car at a wrecking yard, or an old car that you own that you don't care if you make a mistake on.

But the fact remains that a rotary buffer is the only machine that will do some work on your paint. The DA will not allow you to really get out imperfections that are more than the most minor.

He used the machine for all of us, and allowed us to only us the DA to apply polish (like #82) and wax (usually gold class).

Basically, the idea is to use the least aggressive product possible, so we generally started out with #82, and then depending on the condition of the paint, went and used the De Walt rotary buffer with #83, and then #84 if #83 couldn't take out the flaw or scratches in the paint. I think on only one of our cars he used #85, but generally, there were flaws in the paint the Mike thought were best left alone. At the end of the day, all the protection you have is your clear coat. In many cases, the scratches are so deep that you'd have to go through your clear coat, so it's clearly (no pun intended) not worth it.

Actually, I purchased the DA from Meguiar's about two years ago and was so disappointed in the machine that I returned it. I ended up buying the exact De Walt rotary buffer that Meguiar's had in their shop, and I have buffed out dozens and dozens of cars, so he let me us the rotary buffer on my car. In all the hundreds of hours I've used my machine, I've never burned through paint. You just have to get a feel for the machine and know how to use power tools in general. It helps if you've done woodworking and used a detail sander. Heck, the DA is really a Porter Cable detail sander for wood. You just have to have a light touch, keep the foam pad wet with product, and keep the machine moving and don't let the paint get to hot. In the end it's abrasiveness of the pad / bonnet you're using, the abrasiveness of the product you're applying and heat generated by friction that removes layers of paint.

Mike Phillips · #89 09-04-2002, 04:00 PM

Hi all,

Thanks for all the kind words, I must say you were all a very enjoyable group to work with and I had as much fun as you did. I really enjoy polishing paint, to me it is an art form.

Bcgreen brings up a few points I thought I would address,

First, from page 8 of this discussion,
bcgreen says,

(I took liberty to correct spelling errors)

(quote from bcgreen)
He will probably take the trunk lid and do a small square section with the Meguiar's orbital sander/polisher to demo. If you look around you will see Home Depot stand lights and DeWalt high-speed polisher as well.

'But he won't demo the high speed polisher'.

(close quote)

Except for John's Mercedes, which had a flawless finish, I used the rotary buffer on everything else we worked on. As far as only doing a small spot, there isn't enough time to do an entire car in a group workshop like this. I guarantee you, I can do a whole car, I can walk the talk.

(Quote from bcgreen)

I am curious, since you guys were there, and I was there a couple of years ago, why when he tried to remove those spider web marks in the paint, why didn't he just use his DA (Meguiar's brand) with #82? It says DA Machine swirl/polish on the container. Why would he go with the high-speed polisher, which in the hand of an inexperienced person can get you in trouble in a split second? When we were there, he wouldn't even use the rotary buffer because of that potential hazard. Also what line of polish did he use with that rotary buffer?

(close quote)

In order to remove a scratch, be it a deep isolated scratch or hundreds of thousands of scratches commonly referred to as cob web scratches or "cobweb effect", you must remove enough paint off of the areas surrounding the scratch until the surface is level with the lowest depth of the scratch. This means you must remove paint.

Orbital polishers and Dual-Action polishers are what I call "Jiggle" machines, they use an oscillating motion instead of a rotary motion. For this reason they wont' do work, i.e. move small particles of paint in a controlled process.

Rotary buffers, using premium products like Meguiar's foam buffing pads, paint cleaners, and cleaner polishes that are oil based and use diminishing abrasives instead of hard, sharp mechanical abrasives are very effective at "moving small particles of paint" in a controlled process.

Experience and knowledge of what I call the 3 P's, (Paint, Products and Procedures), told me to use the rotary buffer to remove the cob web scratches instead of the DA Polisher.

Meguiar's typically doesn't show the average consumer how to use the rotary buffer, as you mention, in the wrong hands it can get you into trouble quick. However, because of the high experience level of this group and their extreme passion for achieving the very best, I couldn't help but to show them how to do it right the first time using the proper tools for the job.

As far as getting into trouble with a rotary buffer, I stressed to everyone there that before

"Working on something Important to you",

"You should practice on something that has no value first"

Either the old truck or station wagon in the driveway, or if need be, visit a local wrecking yard and purchase the hood off a wrecked car.

I always warn enthusiests against learning how to use a rotary buffer on a Black Viper.

On that note, if your using a variable speed buffer, you can turn the rpm's down while your learning to use it, this will help you to control it. You must speed it up for actual buffing as higher RPM's are necessary to produce good "cutting-action" in the case of defect removal and "polishing-action" in the case of restoring depth of color, clarity to a clear coat and overall high gloss.

Foam buffing pads because of their "Cushion" offer a level of protection compared to wool buffing pads, this offers some built in safety for newbies to the machine polishing world.

Also, because all of Meguiar's products are oil-based and use safe but effective diminishing abrasives, the increased "lubricity" of the products and decreased aggressiveness of the diminishing abrasives offer some dramatic and measurable safety to people new to using a rotary buffer and to experienced people as well.

Another way to learn how to use the rotary buffer is to use our small, 6.5" buffing pads when first starting out. These pads are much easier to control as well as enabling you to get into tight areas and work safelyl on smaller panels.

The last question bcgreen asked was what line of polish I used. I demonstrated using Meguiar's 80's series fast cutting compounds and cleaner/polishes followed by Meguiar's Gold Class Liquid wax.

bcgreen brings up some good points as well as some good questions, it leads me to think that he is somewhat experienced in this area?

Perhaps, in the future when we hold more of these workshops you can visit us again, make it a point to introduce yourself and I will go to great lengths to answer all of your questions and show you anything, or any tool or product you are interested in.

Thanks again to everybody that took the time to attend, if anyone has any further questions, please feel free to ask here or send me an e-mail.

Mike Phillips
Corporate Writer
Meguiar's Inc.
Mphillips@meguiars.com
1-800-854-8073 ext. 189

bcgreen · #90 09-04-2002, 07:04 PM

Mike:
Speaking here on the internet is not like talking in person, where one can get a lot of information from one's voice and inflection. On a few of the other sites I frequently visit, I have noticed things get out of hand and basically it comes down to misinterpretation. You can't see me or hear me so you judge the person by a translation of the words.
quote: I can do a whole car, I can walk the talk.
I would hope so. I've seen you're work and listened to you talk, so I know you wouldn't hold that position there at Mequiar's for very long.
Here's my question: I detailed the exterior of a dark blue 2001 Mustang within an inch of its life, but it took me 2 days, with no interior work - just tires, wheels, body and windows. I know from previous experience that using the DA would not have gotten out the cobwebbing, so I just went with the rotary buffer and the proper materials and chemicals and it was awesome. But I know the best guys in the detailing business won't take that long - time is money. But they won't sacrifice quality for time either. I know you can do this job in about 7 hours max. This I haven't yet figured out and have started to think of using a product that is a swirl/ polisher combination. This takes one step out of my normal 4 step process.
Thanks Mike, I too enjoyed my time there a couple of years ago, but I couldn't get the perfect (my perfect) job done, no matter what product or chemical, with the DA. Thats when I discovered a fellow who did some Pebble Beach events and indicated on how to get to the next level in getting that perfect job. You need the rotary polisher. After saving up my pennies I finally got one and viola, I have now the ability to achieve what is perfection in my eyes.
Its just how to get these same results in less time. Whats your take, tips and or suggestions? I use Mequiars pads matched with the correct Meguiars products.
Thanks