JD Powers , a nationally acclaimed automotive industry analysis firm, rated Mercedes Quality relatively low in its latest survey released last week, and placed it behind some relatively mediocre cars.
However, you have to read deeper, and analyze what wasnt said.
JD Powers rates the quality of the car upon delivery and looks for "showroom"defects and not the vehicle's longterm quality. Quite a few cars I wouldnt trade my 300D or a 240D were listed high. I would bet a 300D and 240D might very well oulast them.
I dont think this was fair and it wasnt fair reporting.

Hello,
It was an American President that said:There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics.

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Nachi11744

This is the Survey
http://www.whatcar.com/News_SpecialReport.asp?NA_ID=207800&EL_ID=3060984

to keep comparing 10 old MB to new cars of other brands. In all fairness even MB dosn't build car that good anymore.
I have a old 89 560sel and a 300sdl from -86. Best 2 cars ever made according to me and the service expenses.

Jari

A lot of people have a problem w/ JD Powes and Consumer Reports, and similar surveys which continue to rank Mercedes as no better than middle of the pack. My personal observations are: 1. Both surveys used to rank Mercedes highly
2. The highly rated makes do, in fact, have fewer problems on average than the lower rated ones 3. Even Mercedes itself has admitted to a decline in manufacturing quality.

I really don't see what's unfair here. There is a subjective element, because the survey requires people to self-report problems, and the presumption is that you'll be more picky about a car that you paid $70,000 for than one that cost you $18,000. However, to me the fact remains that formerly Mercedes met that high standard with greater success than it now does.

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Tjohn

82 300 SD
77 450 SL (gone)

Yep, just backs up the fact that they no longer make a quality car. '85 and earlier for me from now on.

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1984 300D Turbo - 4-speed manual conversion, mid-level resto

1983 300D - parts car

1979 300TD Auto - Parts car.

1985 300D Auto - Wrecked/Parts.


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"If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there". Lewis Carrol

Thje new E320 CDI diesel new here in the US is having lots of problems with power intermitent loss of power, that has left people stranded. One guy on the VW TDI forum has had his in the shop for 2 weeks this time around and still MB dealer has no answer to problem, other then to throw parts at the car.

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'10 Chrysler T&C Stow-N-Go White. Grandpa's ride.

'13 Chrysler 200 Touring Candy Red. Grandma's ride.

Age and cunning will always over come youth and vigor.

One of the things that seriously hurts MB rating with JD power is the maintenace requirements.

Japanese cars these days have maintenance schedules that consist mostly of oil changes at 7500 miles, nothing else. Brake pads last forever, no suggested tranny fluid changes, etc.

MB still uses fairly short life brake pads and rotors, and up til recently scheduled tranny fluid changes, and a lot of other stuff at fixed intervals. Everyone SHOULD do this stuff, but people percieve cars as "bettery" if all you have to do is put gas in them and change to oil once a decade.

I'll keep my "high maintenace" car, thank you.

This is percieved, alas, but many people as a lack of quality.

Add that to the fact that many, many people don't keep their cars much longer than the initial warrenty period (ie they are leased), and new ower surveys will be very heavily biased toward cars that don't require any service at all during the lease.

Benz DOES have some severe quality control problems, so do BMW and Volvo. The new Volvos are NOT the 740s!

Diamler USED to be a company that was fairly conservative about what the actually sold, but did quite a bit of engineering and research before they built something. Limited production prior to the 1980's helped -- they couldn't afford to make many running changes and couldn't afford to alienate customers. Now they have a reputation, sell comparitively huge numbers of cars, and have forgotten their conservative roots.

I prefered the old days.

Peter

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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Anyway Mercedes is the only ones making a Diesel, so I'm stuck with Mercedes as my passion unless I go with VW and the Passat.
I'm not real knowlegeable about Cars made after 2000.
Well we know the 300D and 240D aren't coming around again, everyone is cramming a lot of engine management electronics and aluminum instead of cast iron into the Powerplant.
Mercedes quality may suffer, but I dont think any of us have any alternatives since no one out there is making a diesel except VW.
Truthfully we dieselheads will all be a thing of the past anyway in the no so distant future after the 240D and 300D's become expensive collector's items...

I love both my 240D and the wife's Jetta TDI (diesel) both are known for being reliable. We've never had a problem with the our VW diesels and hope the 240D will be the same. I'm new to MB diesels, but have always heard about the legendary 240D and decided to go for one.

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'10 Chrysler T&C Stow-N-Go White. Grandpa's ride.

'13 Chrysler 200 Touring Candy Red. Grandma's ride.

Age and cunning will always over come youth and vigor.

Mercedes has many many more options than a Hyndai or Kia, and thus has many more things that can go "wrong". Think about it- with 100 complex electronic "options" (like moving the seats to your setting with the key fob before you get in the car) it's more likely you'll have a few things wrong than if you have almost none. Not alot of things can go wrong with manual windows... versus power windows with auto down and up, lock out saftey features, etc.. That's just an example ( yes I know that few cars now have manual windows, but it's the concept) . JD powers goes on the amount of things compalined about- not the % of compaints as compared to # of things that culd go wrong.
William

Re-read your post and perhaps you will understand how much sense you DON'T make. Why are you comparing 20 year old cars to new ones? Am I the only one who thinks this thread is beyond stupid?

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'02 BMW 325i
'85 300D 450k
'93 190E 2.6 170k(killed by tree)
'08 Ducati Hypermotard 1100S 6k
'06 Ducati S2R800 14k(sold)

repost

"It's also unfair to keep comparing 10 old MB to new cars of other brands. In all fairness even MB dosn't build car that good anymore. "

The reason I replied is because I keep hearing and seeing these comparisons being made.

Jari

I wonder how Cadillac compare to Mercedes today. Cadillacs are full of gadgets too.

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DJ


84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012

- can be had with reclining rear seats. most 30+ cars today have a number of computers on them. I believe the bigger problemfor MB (just my thought) is the new suspensions and brake systems.

When talking luxury cars one camp argues that luxury is to have reliability as you don't have to see the dealer every week.
Another camp argues that luxury means to push the technology edge and thus reliability issue will follow.

I tend to be in the former camp. To me the luxury aspect of MB is not an integrated computrized DVD and navigation/phone system. It's the ride/build quality and performance aspect.

Putting an advanced phone system and DVD/entertainment system in a Kia does not make it a luxury car.

A second hand MB used to be a good deal mainly due to reliability/longevity.

Now it's just another used car. Look at the used prizes of the new S class. Devastating and to me embarrasing.
(edit: only a true MB enthusiats would take it personal and feel embarrased, but am getting over it as I get older )

- J