Sometimes a person is afraid to crawl under the car, for fear of what she might see

For some time, I've had an unpleasant grinding noise when making moderate to sharp right turns -- particularly when decelerating, i.e. when there's more weight on the left front of the car (1985 300D-T, 229,000 miles). This was disguised initially by the need for a lot of front-end suspension work -- but I did notice it occurring even immediately after the famous 'front-end rebuild' was completed five weeks ago. I chalked it up at the time to 'gee, guess I need new shocks, too', and tried not to make unnecessary sharp right turns.

It was bothering me tonight, so I parked with the wheels turned far right, then had my son sit on the left fender, hoping it would show something rubbng up against something else. Instead, I saw this torn boot on a knuckle (maybe a lower ball joint? I'm having trouble finding a good diagram with labels):

(larger image)

I looked around a little more and saw this boot, on the other end of that arm, was also torn:

(larger image)

My question is less about whether this needs to be fixed: it seems obvious to me it does. But I wonder a little about the fact that I just had a bunch of front-end work done there, this symptom was present immediately after the work, and likely before as well... should the mechanic have seen this and mentioned it to me, or is this a more minor problem than I'm thinking it is? Would you 'kick your mechanic to the curb' so to speak if you were me?

Secondly, can I fix this myself?

The torn boot is a problem when water makes it's way in and begins to rust the ball and ball socket. It looks like you would have to hit, or run over something for that to rip open, or was there shody workmenship involved here?
It needs to be replaced.

The grinding sound you describe would generally be front end suspension, but you say all of that, less shocks, was replaced!

I would be inclined to return the car to the mechanic who worked on the car and have him find the fault and repair it. If what he finds was not involved with the original work, pay him to fix, and obviously if it is associated with the previuos work, he needs to finish his job, or replace a possibly defective replacement part!

Steve.................

I'd find another mechanic or do it yourself. It looks to me like these boots may have gotten torn up during the front end rebuild. The normal mode of failure is that they crack and open up around the outer edges. Yours have been damaged.

Suspension work is really not that hard if you take your time and be systematic about it which I'm sure you could handle. We can walk you through the replacement of the item shown if you decide to diy.

Personally, I question what your "front end rebuild" consisted of. Every front end rebuild I have ever done included replacement of the item shown.

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Jim

Those are tie rod ends. What front-end work did you have done? If your ball joints were replaced, the shop may have torn the boots when they separated them to facilitate the ball joint job. Otherwise, they should have at least caught the discrepancy, especially given the nature of your complaint. The rubber seals keep the grease in and water and dirt out of the joint. If they have been cracked for any length of time, the joint has been contaminated and wear will occur quickly. So I would replace the joint. Not a real hard job. The hardest thing is sepatating the joint. Autozone will loan the tools. But once you get done you will need an alignment. The tie rod ends are not terribly expensive. Sometimes you can but the complete assembly (Tube, clamp and ends) for less than just the ends. The 300D has two tie rods (left & right) plus a center link. I would replace them all if they are original. To answer you question, it is not a minor problem, but not an urgent one either.

Here's what's on the invoice (abbreviated):

They didn't bill it as a 'front-end rebuild', I called it that assuming that's (mostly) what it consisted of, so that discrepancy in terminology would be of my own making. Nevertheless, seems like it would have been easily visible?

One lower ball joint and two support joints? Does your Mercedes have three front wheels? "Support joint" is Mercedes term for what is more ofter called a lower ball joint. They call the upper ball joints "Guide joints." They are part of the upper control arm. Changing just one ball joint doe not make a lot of sense. I would question the parts portion of the bill. My bet is that the shop tore your tie rod end boots when they seperated them to do the ball joints. The top photo is consistent with this theory.

The first photo is very telling. The rubber boot has been torn by a tool. It did not just tear due to age. The tool used on the boot was used very recently because there is a little flap of rubber that is just hanging on and is sitting next to the opening. You will also notice that the opening is perfectly clean, like the damage was done yesterday. If this had occurred six months ago, the boot would be caked with dirt and water and the opening to the tie rod end itself would be nowhere near as clean as it is now.

I hate to make a premature judgment, but it certainly appears like that shop caused this damage. Whether you can prove it is another sad story.

"Easily visible" was confirmed by you and documented via your digital camera. Those do look like compression tears and not similar to age cracks.

Hopefully you have the time to take it on as a DIY project. The available talent on this forum will have you completing it like a pro.

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Steve
'87 300TD - 132K - Soon 4-Sale
'84 300D Turbo - 122K - Driving
'77 VW Type II - 77K - Restored
'08 250EX Ninja
English Bulldog (Brier) - My best friend. Passed away 12/02/04 while in my arms.

Those are the tie rod ends, yeah they probably have water/rust in there like has been said.

I had my front end "rebuilt" too, by some idiot. He replaced everything with moog parts, and charged me like 8 hours to do the ball joints because he didnt know what he was doing. Oh well, that was 4 years ago. I decided this summer that I wanted all new OE parts, so I bought everything...and did it myself (with some help of a friend).

2 Guide Rod supports
2 upper control arms (w/ bushings and ball joint)
Sway bar bushings
shocks all the way around
tie rods, center drag link, idler arm bushing kit, all new hardware,
2 lower control arms with bushings
2 lower ball joints
new steering box (23k miles)
engine shocks and mounts
it goes on and on...

I wanted to have a real record of everything replaced instead of trusting some mechanics of putting in some bad parts when I intially got the car. This made the car much more quiet, and it steers much better.

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Current Stable:
1994 S500 v140, 210k miles, white with grey.

Former Mercedes in the Stable:
1983 300CD Turbo diesel 515k mi sold (rumor has it, that it has 750k miles on it now)
1984 300CD Turbo Diesel 150 k mi sold
1982 300D Turbo Diesel 225 sold
1987 300D Turbo Diesel 255k mi sold
1988 300 CE AMG Hammer 15k mi sold
1986 "300E" Amg Hammer 88k mi sold (it was really a 200, not even an E (124.020)
1992 500E 156k mi sold
etc.

Pictures look like he used a joint fork to seperate and tear the tie rod boots. These are of two types, one that you hit with a hammer, and one that's an attachment for an air hammer. They make quick work of seperating joints, but tears the boots while doing it.

Print this thread.
Take a friend as witness, the print out and car back to your service garage.
Ask to speak with the manager.
Be nice, sweeter than sugar.
At all cost, remain calm and make no threats.
Show the manager this print out.
Ask what they will do to rectify the damage.
Get it in writing or have the repair done while you wait.
If they repair the damage, I would keep going there.
If they refuse or try to intimidate you, forget them.
At all cost, remain calm and make no threats.
We will be happy to teach you DIY.

Here is a thread you need to look at and think about:
Wheel alignment tools
We are talking wheel alignment, not particle physics, it is simple.

whunter and others, your advice about taking the car back to the garage and questioning them is reasonable, although I unreasonably dread it as it will surely be awkward. My bf has offered to accompany me, which should help, and I may run it by another shop for an opinion first. I guess most of all I would like to satisfy myself as to whether this shop has been dishonest or incompetent.

Doing it myself is having some appeal, it doesn't look that hard... I'll have to do a bit of forum searching, see who else has been hand-held through this particular repair, and how it turned out for them

My guess is that the mechanic used the term "support joints" to describe "track rod joints".

Steering components were essentially not addressed. I hate to say it, but a one-directional grinding noise could be a steering box.

What is the mechanic's background in regard to Mercedes? Perhaps he's just in over his head.

It's kind of a low-pitched vibration plus groan, felt more in the steering wheel and seat than heard, which oddly I didn't realize until I rode in the car as a passenger -- I could barely hear/feel the noise at all then It seems to have to do more with weight loading than steering-wheel position, but then again, I claim no knowledge of the steering or suspension! ...It's probably impossible to accurately diagnose without someone driving the car, then shaking some parts around underneath. I really ought to do a forums search on steering, and see how other people troubleshoot, before having a new mechanic look at it.

I took the car to this mechanic because he repairs 'import' cars, and I noticed Volvos, BMWs, and the occasional Mercedes parked out front, including some diesels, especially Volvo diesels. I went and spoke to them about my car ahead of time, and they indicated confidence dealing with my car

Perhaps I need someone specializing in Mercedes after all, of which I know a couple, just less-conveniently located. This guy's shop is literally within bicycling distance of my house, handy when I need to drop the car off without the hassle of arranging rides or cabs. Guess that was too good to be true :p

Complete tie rod assemblies are available here at Fastlane for less money than just the ends. That was a good option for me since my existing tie rods were so rusted together that adjustment was impossible.

Check in the "Good Shops" section of the board for recommendations in Atlanta. I know there are a few. The owners of this site have a fantastic shop north of Atlanta. Unfortunately they are buried in high dollar performance upgrades to new cars, so they probably couldn't accomodate you.

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Rick Miley
2014 Tesla Model S
2018 Tesla Model 3
2017 Nissan LEAF
Former MB: 99 E300, 86 190E 2.3, 87 300E, 80 240D, 82 204D Euro
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