what about a Ram 3500 dually with a cummins... totally not yuppie get some 5 inch exhaust pointing to the level of the honda civic windows.. put a chip in her and lay some nice clouds at every traffic light... o yea and tow like.. a whole house

I would never be seen in a Lexus. They are just Toyota's with a 10K premium for the same crappy plastics and sub-Corinthian quality leather. They are luxury cars for people who think luxury means overpriced.

Thats pretty YUPPIE around here, but sending some diesel exhaust into some Hondas sounds like fun.

__________________
1983 300SD
200000miles

I disagree. We have a 1995 LS400. I know nothing of the crappy plastics you speak of or sub-quality leather. The interior is holding up excellently, not to mention it's quite reliable as well.

__________________
'81 MB 300SD, '82 MB 300D Turbo (sold/RIP), '04 Lincoln Town Car Ultimate

Sooner or later every car falls apart, ours does it later!
-German Narrator in a MB Promotion Film about the then brand new W123.

kia, hyundia, buick, and so on.

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I agree with your disagree. . I used to have a 90' Lexus LS400 that was of high quality. The only thing that happened was my interior panels hardened after I stupidly put "Lexol" leather protectant on the vinyl upon someones suggestion. It developed several interior "ticks" and "pops". It was so bad that I sold it.

pshh your saying that cuz your a lexus owner. Basically lexus is a overpriced euro-spec toyota. Cheap parts not top notch quality. Engine is good since toyotas hardly break down.

In guatemala they had the LS400 with toyota badges all over it and named different. They dont have lexus over there because they are just toyotas. And the leather looked the same as my friends 4runners leather...cheap! So they are overpriced toyotas face it.
And i say euro-spec because the all cars over there are to euro-spec. The honda accord looks like it does in europe like a acura TSX

__________________
Current:
05 E320 CDI
07 GL320 CDI
08 Sprinter
05 Dodge Cummins
01 Dodge Cummins

Previous
2004 E55 AMG
2002 C32 AMG (#2)
1995 E300
1978 300D
1987 300D
2002 C32 AMG(blown motor :[
1981 300SD
1983 300SD
1987 300SDL
2002 Jetta TDI
1996 S420
1995 S500
1993 190E 2.6
1992 190E 2.3
1985 190E 2.3 5-Speed

any minivan. driving a minivan is like buying a cheap suit and wearing it every single day.

__________________
________________

punkinfair

of toyota experience. my son in law had one that held up pretty well. and the fit and finish reminded me of a benz in some ways. not as good in all ways but very similar in some ways.

when folks ask me what to buy i often advise toyotas, cause i know what it takes to maintain a benz and most folks won't. so for a given price they are better off with a toy.

not for me though. i love the benz engineering.

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

While the current smaller Buick SUV's styling is out of this world, the Buick Rainier is much better. However, this one is supposed to debut soon - one of the nicest SUV's I have seen in a while:

http://www.autoblog.com/media/2006/01/buickenclve00014.jpg

Yes, people keep on using the the tired old cliche that "it's an overpriced Toyota". You can't call them that anymore. You'll see why in the second paragraph.

As far as your comment that they don't have Lexus in Guatemala because they're just Toyotas, I don't know if you've kept up with the news lately, but if you have, you'd know that Lexus and Toyota are now two separate automotive divisions. There's no such thing as the Toyota Celsior, Altezza or Soarer anymore, they're all Lexus branded vehicles now with no ties to Toyota.

Again, you have no personal experience with these cars. From what you've written, it looks like you've never riden in or driven one. You cannot just go by looks and call the leather cheap just because it looks like it.

I'll use this analogy, you saying it's a cheap car just by looking it at is like those people who think all 1980's MB diesels are slow, loud, stinky, polluting, high-maintainence and constantly belching black smoke. They're totally ignorant about the facts, and have never driven or owned or riden in a MB diesel in their life. You can't say anything about it until you've experienced it personally. That's like me calling your mom's Passat TDI a POS because it probably has a lot of electronic components and computers in it I would not care for and I would think would fail often given this era of declining automotive quality we live in. But, I have no experience with VWs, so what gives me the expertise to say that?

I know this is a MB forum, but I can't just sit here and have someone state false information as fact about a non-MB vehicle that I have personal experience with.

(Done ranting).

-Joe

P.S.

To get back on subject and end this thread hijack, I wouldn't want to be caught in a Trabant.

__________________
'81 MB 300SD, '82 MB 300D Turbo (sold/RIP), '04 Lincoln Town Car Ultimate

Sooner or later every car falls apart, ours does it later!
-German Narrator in a MB Promotion Film about the then brand new W123.

I can see where a Lexus may rub off to be of lesser quality. In my eyes the plastics arent of lesser quality, but of lesser finish; On an MBZ the plastics are finished on all visible surfaces- even in crevices in the glove box door jam. On a Toyota/Lexus there is less attention to these details... for example on my friends ES300 the glove box door has an unsmoothed ridge along the inner top of the glove box door, lending to a more mass produced economy feel than a quality finished feel. The stitching of the leather seats is slightly crooked in parts and all of the knobs and speedo look as though they have been lifted out of a Camry.... trim pieces and fittings are shared between Toyota and Lexus... which depending upon ones viewpoint can be a good or bad thing.... Sure its great for Toyota, they can make it cheaper to produce a luxury car by taking parts from the toyota parts bin. That cost saving obviously doesnt filter down to the consumer level as Lexus' sell at a premium, comparable to certain MBZ's that offer a more individualized and finished feel when looking at the small little details throughout the interior.

That said, Lexus' in my eyes arent of lesser quality, but are slightly less refined. More pedestrian. But they are still very very nice cars, and offer great value... who could say a dressed up Toyota is a BAD thing. They certainly dont compare to an MBZ when it comes to many little details... they share commonalities in only 2 areas... features and price. And for many consumers, those are the two most important factors when buying a car. Thats how Lexus has survived; before Lexus, toyota was one of the first automakers to offer ample features and QUALITY at competitive prices...and the people whom bought toys then moved into Lexus when they wanted more luxury. They could still own their duruable toyota, but now with leather, alloys, and wood trimmings. The same goes for the Honda/Acura phenomena. Those consumers are less interested in the little details like finish.


As far as a car that I wouldnt want to be seen in....... hmmmmm
I like lots of cars, and lots of ugly cars.... I have a fetish for french cars.. Pugs, Citroens, even the Renault LeCar. Many would consider the cars I like as hideous, or of bad taste. I'll just cut to the chase. Anything GM, or American for that matter, esp. if it has a Bush decal on it. Im so typical. Forgive me.

__________________
Nate

1995 E420
1992 BMW 525i
1984 300D Turbo sold
1993 Volvo 244 sold
1995 Volvo 944T R.I.P!


"The details are not details. They make the product."
-Charles Eames

www.cbs.nu

like the le car. it has a ton of character...style wise. i think it lacked quality though. or at least the buyers it attracted in the us maybe didnt take care of them either. but they were very rust prone as i remember.

sorry, cant warm up to that buick suv.

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I had a 1993 Toyota Camry LE V6 about two years ago - a very high quality car. It had 215K when I sold it and it was still 100% squeak and rattle free. The interior was very high quality, but I think the glove box door should have been padded, like it was on my 90' Honda Accord LX- which was also a high quality car.

I am not saying this to put down MB, but the 80s and early 90s Japanese cars (most of them) do deserve some attention for their quality.

The only reason I sold the Camry is because the struts had failed at every wheel. It was going to cost me over $600 to replace them (parts and labor), so I sold it. After I sold it, I wish I had of kept it. It was the best $2200 I spent. It was a 1-owner, garage kept car and was still like new. All miles were highway/freeway. The lady I sold it to had a NEW BMW 3-Series convertible, a new Toyota 4-Runner and a nearly new Honda Civic. She wanted this car because she wanted a 4-door just to run quick errands in. I think she still has it.

Here is a photo of it in my driveway. Wow, our driveway was not even paved then - this may have been more like three years ago then.

Attached Thumbnails

 

__________________
2004 Toyota Sequoia Limited 4wd
1991 Lincoln Town Car Executive
1991 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1988 Mercedes 300SEL
1972 Chevrolet Caprice Kingswood Estate 9-passenger wagon
1973 Pontiac Grand Ville
(Prior MB's: 1974 240D, 1985 380SE, 1984 190D, 1993 400SEL)

You would learn to love this SUV, Tom.