OM 603 question.............. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

boneheaddoctor · #1 01-12-2005, 10:28 AM

What manual transmissions will bolt up to a OM603 engine?

Would love to stick a 5 speed stick OM603 into a clean 240D....assuming the right deals fall into place.

Brian Carlton · #2 01-12-2005, 12:10 PM

..........enough work to do on the W116???

boneheaddoctor · #3 01-12-2005, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

..........enough work to do on the W116???

Obviously not.......................

Just brainstorming.................getting the wife to let me actually do it is another thing entirely.

350SL4spd · #4 01-12-2005, 01:18 PM

As far as I've ever read, MB kept mannys out of all of their higher torque diesels (ie turbos) because they couldn't make (or didn't have already) a unit that could handle the torque. Went though clutches too fast or something for MBs strict standards (read; wouldn't make it out of warranty

).
I was always considering one for my 300TD even if I would have had to put a new clutch in ever 30k mi or so...
I'd think the hardest part of putting a 603 in an older model would be all the blasted boost control and electrics

. Is their enough room? (A w123 w/ a hump in the hood might look downright sexy though....)
Cheers,
-Matt-

boneheaddoctor · #5 01-12-2005, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdba123190

As far as I've ever read, MB kept mannys out of all of their higher torque diesels (ie turbos) because they couldn't make (or didn't have already) a unit that could handle the torque. Went though clutches too fast or something for MBs strict standards (read; wouldn't make it out of warranty

).
I was always considering one for my 300TD even if I would have had to put a new clutch in ever 30k mi or so...
I'd think the hardest part of putting a 603 in an older model would be all the blasted boost control and electrics

. Is their enough room? (A w123 w/ a hump in the hood might look downright sexy though....)
Cheers,
-Matt-

Someone from Finland did it and one of the threads the last week had a picture.......

Crank one of those babies up and get a grin on your face fast when you blow past a lot of people away from a light......

R Leo · #6 01-12-2005, 03:28 PM

Quote:

As far as I've ever read, MB kept mannys out of all of their higher torque diesels (ie turbos) because they couldn't make (or didn't have already) a unit that could handle the torque. Went though clutches too fast or something for MBs strict standards (read; wouldn't make it out of warranty

).

Nonsense. These clutches and trannies are über stout. Over the years, virtually the same transmission and clutch that hangs on the back of my OM617 (in a 300TD BTW) has been bolted to plenty of gassers in the W116 chassis. A Euro M110 probably makes 40 more HP and who knows how much more torque than a 603.

Read on....

Quote:

Originally Posted by from mbz.org

> There were a small number of early 3.5L 116 cars that had
> manual transmissions.

Richard,

not only the early 350s were available with manual transmission, this was
standard ex factory up to the end of the W116 production in 1979.

All W116 280 S/SE/SEL and 350 SE/SEL had manual transmission as standard ex
factory. Automatic transmission was an option (SA), code 42/0 as floor shift
lever or 42/1 as column shift lever.

Same applies to the R/C107: 280 SL/SLC and 350 SL/SLC.

That was changed in the following W126 series: only the six cylinder models
280S/SE/SEL and later 260SE/300SE/300SEL had manual transmission as standard.

MBUSA (or MBNA then) usually ordered all vehicles with automatic gearbox and
sold this as standard version. This was however only a marketing issue, not a
factory or technical one, the vehicles still bear the special option code for
auto transmission.

Richard Becker
London

Jeez, a 603 couldn't cause any more torture to a clutch than trying to start my manual 240 on a steep hill.

350SL4spd · #7 01-12-2005, 05:35 PM

I had heard of a couple of 107 SL 'little' V8s getting a stick in europe....Guess you learn something everyday...
Someone had something up at one point ('course I can't find it at the moment...

) that said MB didn't put a 5spd stick in a Turbo because of these worries. Just gossip for as far as I can prove it... Seemed to make sense...that was the same excuse they were flaunting in the 90's when they wouldn't put a stick in anything bigger than the six. That and the fact that I read a report that AMG had to tune down one of their recent models because the tranny couldn't take the torque. Supposed to have been taken care of that w/ the new 7spd.

Of course none of this answers the question of whether or not there is a manny that will bolt up to a 603. Did they ever put a stick in the 190D 2.5 Turbo? That was a 602 motor, might be similar enough. I know they put one in the non-turbo version, however hard to find they are...
Just thinkng out loud...

Cheers,
-Matt-

cornblatt · #8 01-12-2005, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdba123190

Did they ever put a stick in the 190D 2.5 Turbo? That was a 602 motor, might be similar enough. I know they put one in the non-turbo version, however hard to find they are...

See http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/attachments/tech-help/18808-speedometer-swap-question-different-max-speeds-190-rear-axle-ratios.gif (which I translated into english from http://www.baureihe201.de/W201/technik.htm). This table shows the different rear axles that came with the car, and in the table it has a listing for a manual transmission on the 190D-2.5 Turbo, which implies that the 190D-2.5 Turbo was sold in Germany with a 5-speed manual.

Mauri H. · #9 01-13-2005, 04:26 AM

There are many manual transmissions that bolt on OM603, actually almost any of MB manuals from W124 will fit. The Big Getrag is the most durable, and with special clutch, it will last quite much torgue. Still 722.3 automatic with proper reinforcements is still stronger.

Try to find the Getrag from 190 2.3 16V or 190 2.5 16V models, or W124 300E 24V manual for excample (717.450 / 717.451, both of them found also in 320 E)

300 Turbodiesel has never been made with manual, but 2.5 turbodiesel has (717.437), also non-turbo 300 D has manual, at least in europe (717.433 ,also on 24v version, 717.430 in earlier 12 valve engines).

Still, my oppinion is that automatic suits much better for these cars. Mercedes manuals are not known to be very comfortable, as the rear staking of the car is flexible, and makes it really hard to take off without annoying jerking. No performance gain is achieved with manual, only little better mpg:s.

R Leo · #10 01-13-2005, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauri H.

There are many manual transmissions that bolt on OM603, actually almost any of MB manuals from W124 will fit. The Big Getrag is th most durable, and with special clutch, it will last quite much torgue. Still 722.3 automatic with proper reinforcements is still stronger.

Try to fingd the Getrag from 190 2.3 16V or 190 2.5 16V models, or W124 300E 24V manual for excample (717.450 / 717.451, both of them found also in 320 E)

300 Turbodiesel has never been made with manual, but 2.5 turbodiesel has (717.437), also non-turbo 300 D has manual, at least in europe (717.433 ,also on 24v version, 717.430 in earlier 12 valve engines).

Still, my oppinion is that automatic suits much better for these cars. Mercedes manual are not known to be very comfortable, as the rear staking of the car is flexible, and makes it really hard to take off without annoying jerking. No performance gain is achieved with manual, only little better mpg:s.

Hi Mauri!
While the manual has a place on the 240 (OM616) I agree that an automatic is probably the better choice for these cars using the OM617. The combination of ungoverned IP and truck-like shifting mechanisim of the cast-iron gearbox on my wagon makes for a car that is practically impossible to downshift smoothly. And, I haven't realized any gain in MPG. Nevertheless, it is lots of fun to drive and is unique; at least here in the USA it is.

I'm thinking that the fully governed IP on the 603 may be more pleasant to drive with the manual transmission than a 617/manual combination.

Also, I am unfamiliar with your use of the phrase 'rear staking.' I'm sure that this justa amatter of translation; could you describe this further?

Take care!

Mauri H. · #11 01-13-2005, 06:57 AM

Well, we call it the back sledge, but I mean the whole system with back suspension, differential etc.

R Leo · #12 01-15-2005, 06:38 PM

No interest, for info only.

http://www.frost123.net/

boneheaddoctor · #13 01-15-2005, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Leo

No interest, for info only.

http://www.frost123.net/

prime deisel swap candidate if I must say so....................

#14 01-16-2005, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Leo

No interest, for info only.

http://www.frost123.net/

*twitch* I like it

I'd drop my 617 Turbo in front of that tranny any day.
But yes I have to agree that the auto trannies in these cars are hard to balk at since they do perform better than most

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