I've got kind of an odd question here guys. Im 17 and my mom doesn't like it when I drive sometimes. She seems to think it's easy to flip over the 300D, because she heard some mechanic tell a story about his daughter doing that. After I put in my bilstein HD's I have been taking corners rather hard at times...boy oh boy do these help the handling, especially after the stock 20 year old shocks.

Yes, I know these cars are definitely not porsches (not like i'd know anyways) but I like to have some fun when I'm driving. Does anyone have any experience or theories on how you'd flip a w123 over? Since they ride rather high I guess it'd be easier to flip than say, my sister's '00 Corolla, but I'd think you'd have to be going at some rather high speeds and doing stupid things with the steering wheel.

I just wanna say I'm not worried at all about the car flipping over, and like many of my peers feel pretty confident behind the wheel of my panzer...but I'd like to perhaps settle my mother's fears and hopefully stop the nagging...
Any input?

__________________
1985 CA 300D Turbo , 213K mi

the W123 has a semi-trailing arm rear suspension. The problem of this design is that at the limit, the outer wheel will toe out under compression, triggering an oversteering situation. As with any car that is oversteering, if the outside rear tire hits a curb or digs in into the soil, it can flip the car. But I don't think that the W123 has a natural tendency to flip over.

this semi-trailing arm design is an improvement over the previous swing-arm design. With this design, the car can "hop over" the outside wheel during extreme cornering, making it inherently unsafe. This is especially true of the "pagoda" SLs, since they had a sporting demeanor. (the old VW Beetles also had a swing-arm rear suspension, and they were also prone to this).

the 5-link rear suspension pioneered by the W201 features a toe-link, which toes-in the wheel under compression. In extreme cornering, this reduces the tendency of the car to oversteer.

if your mother is nagging you while you are driving, the nagging will definitely stop when the car is about to flip over ...

The fact that you are 17 speak volumes.......Not intending to put you down but in a few more years you are going to see what I mean.

At 17 you do NOT have the experience to really know when the car is at the limit and are really not completely prepared when it happens.

The car will flip if you get it sideways and one of the leading tires catchs the road in some manner that stops a slide.....and yes you can do that in a corvette too. Just a high sitting car is going to be far easier to flip.

Now before you blow a gasket and get upset....when I was 18 I got a car sideways on hard packed snow ....leading rear tire caught a patch or road that was less icey than what I was sliding on...it wasn't even a dry patch....car came up on two wheels and teetered there for what seemed like 5 seconds befroe it dropped back onto all 4 wheels....and make a note as to how fast I was traveling when this happened....a blistering 20 MPH.

Also ever watch TV....I forget what show it was....they were flogging a BMW on a slalom course and flipped it....

I am 43 now....and I was definately hell on wheels at your age......between 16 and 18 I had 5 friends killed in auto accidents...that they lost control.

One was a girl....she was ejected on the first roll....the car came to rest on top of her upside down. Needless to say it was a closed coffin funeral.

Crap happens.....and you almost NEVER see it coming.

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

I will agree with boneheaddoctor on this one...I am 18 and understand what he is talking about very well. The more you drive the more comfortable you will feel with your car but you defintely have to drive carefully as your learn.

I've never had the SD over on two wheels of any sort and the only sort of sliding I usually do is at VERY low speeds or drifting around KNOWN corners.

Drive cautiously and always expect the worst. Just make sure that you always have an out.

It would be safe to say that these cars tend to not roll (atleast the w123 and w126 bodies) and prefer to slide on smooth surfaces but obviously inperfections in road surface could turn your life upside down

If you want a learn a lot..go take your car out into a VACANT parking lot somewhere where you won't disturb people and run it around in circles and corner a little. See how it feels. You will learn to expect its actions and know the difference between slide and flip.

Happy motoring! (keep those tire pressures in spec)

You would have to be doing something pretty stupid to flip any car over. You need to learn how to control a skid, snow is very usefull for this.

I wouldn't go crazy it is a W123 not a 911, besides I bet those skinny tires are getting their side walls chewed up.


The roof on new cars is pretty strong, my cousin flipped over his pimped out Civic a few years back. I think it was a 2000 model. It held up very well the roof was in no danger of collapsing. So if you are wearing your seat belt I wouldn't worry.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Like Boneheaddoctor I was hell on wheels at your age. Just look at our signatures--we both have Harley choppers. At 48 I've slowed down and enjoy life. Do the same with your Mercedes. These are great girl getters. Use it as one. Nothing tears my heart more than seeing a young person die before their life has really begun. J. R. B.

__________________
1983 300-D turbo
1985 300-D turbo
1959 Harley Panhead chopper
1929 Ford coupe restored
I hang out with Boneheaddoctor at Schuman Automotive OBK#5
All liberals are mattoids but not all mattoids are liberal.

I rode along once with my friend in his 1972 300SEL 4.5 on a track, and I was almost sure that car was going to flip over (without sliding sideways), but it didn't. I haven't been that scared in a long time. Way faster that I would EVER drive on a normal road. Surprisingly though, the car held the road very well. No wonder he had 5 point harnesses and helmets in the car.

Attached Thumbnails

 

__________________


1980 500SE/AMG Euro
1981 500SEL Euro
1982 380SEL
1983 300TD
1983 500SEC/AMG Euro
1984 500SEC
1984 300TD Euro
1986 190E 2.3-16
1986 190E 2.3
1987 300D
1997 C36 AMG
2003 C320T 4matic

past: 1969 280SE 4.5 | 1978 240D | 1978 300D | 1981 300SD | 1981 300SD | 1982 300CD | 1983 300CD | 1983 300SD | 1983 380SEC | 1984 300D | 1984 300D | 1984 300TD | 1984 500SEL | 1984 300SD | 1985 300D | 1986 300E | 1986 560SEL | 1986 560SEL/Carat | 1987 560SEC | 1991 300D 2.5 | 2006 R350

It no longer makes much sense to push a car anywhere near it's limits. Any form of accident in your age group may have large financial consequences. Major increase in insurance premiums to start with. Plus it has come to my attention insurance companys are launching an initiative to detect the damaged cars that are not even reported to insurance. Also just tends to reduce expected lifespan of vehicle or increase maintenance costs. The edge of the cars handeling envelope is not the place to be for all kinds of other reasons as well. Now to tie the above together with my experience at simular age. My father complained I was cornering to fast in my 1962 220 gas mercedes. Found out he was right as I did not even know the break point mind behaviour just before rolling. Well that car turned out to have major understeer when pushed too hard. I think i have the description right as car at break point would attempt to plow straight ahead not turn at all. Car just ignored the corner pretty well rather than the rear end breaking loose contributing to the oversteer moxt cars have. Always respected that car in certain conditions after the first time. No accident resulted because of blind luck and always respected that cars limitations as long as i owned it. Went straight off the cloverleaf. The road was dry and car was going to go straight no matter what i did. Up to that critical point i thought i had the cars handeling nailed down pat. After the experience made it a habit of never approaching that point as there was absolutly nothing you could do until speed dropped a lot. Give me a car with oversteer anyday. Different tires on front and back wheels may have contributed to that cars problem. I do not believe mercedes made a car that understeered on purpose.

Jeez. I'm 68 and enjoy driving a lot, but I'm STILL learning things about handling, and I used to drive semi-competitively. Suspensions change with technology. They're doing things now that were unheard of in the '60s and '70s. If you want to learn about handling, either (1) go to a good competitive driving school, (2) practice on a skid pad, or (3) find an icy parking lot with lots of room and experiment.

Wes

I agree...oversteer + non-ABS brakes can be useful sometimes....saved my arse one day coming down off the mountain on icy roads..

Had I ABS I would be in a ditch...I locked up all fours when I started to slide sideways on a straightaway after a icy corner and just spun around but went straight down the road...whew...learning experience..

I approve of the open empty parking lot...just make sure you don't wake anyone up

Just for the record..........

Oversteer........made famous by Porsche.....is the rear end coming around when pushed past the limit. Very difficult to control and very dangerous outside of an autocross event.

Understeer....... the tendency of the front end to slide ahd to continue in a straight line till traction is regained.....far safer to exerience as usually scrubbing off speed is all thats required to regain traction and control.

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Thanks for the advice guys. Rest assured that I don't drift around corners and slide around like I'm in a 2 seater... LOL though that would be pretty interesting seeing someone do that in a W123. I've never had the rear end run away from me (oversteer) or anything like that and I doubt I will (actually, once... the first time I drove in the rain...but I learned from that), as it sounds like a pretty frightening thing to in a street/intersection with other cars, sidewalks, and lamp poles around.

__________________
1985 CA 300D Turbo , 213K mi

I wouldn't worry about flipping ANY Mercedes. I started with a swing axle VW as my first German car, never came close to flipping it though they were notorious for rolling over on corners. Drove several swing axle Mercedes finmobiles from the 60s, these were the 220 six cylinder models, one was a privately imported 220 SE fuel injection model,it would go over 100 MPH on its tiny 600 13 bias ply tires, it never flipped. Those models had the low pivot swing axle with a single hinge in the middle, and had much less camber change than the earlier model as used on the 300 sports cars (!)

The swing axle car I remember had the most anti social attitude was the early Corvair, I owned a few of those and never flipped one either although I probably came closer than any other car.

In every case, you would have to drive like a nut to get anywhere close to flipping any of these cars, and they were all much easier to flip than a modern car.

I did see one 123 Mercedes sedan, a six cylinder gas model, that flipped. The owner's teenage son tried to take an onramp at about 3 times the recommended speed on a rainy night, the car skidded and hit the curb and over it went. According to him he was driving along minding his own business when suddenly for no reason at all the car flipped over. Yeah right.

In downtown portland (SW specifically) there are a lot of hilly roads. Often I will be going to school and take a corner at a very VERY low speed and as the transmission downshifts and the boost comes up (I am going uphill) the back end kicks out and slides sideways. Its rather annoying because I have to snail crawl for this not to happen. Its gotton to the point now where I expect it and roll with it to some degree. Given this only happens when it is wet...course Oregon is wet nearly 24/7/365.

Pop a tire in a slide I guarantee you the rim WILL dig in adn the car WILL flip.

all it takes is for one tire to find some resistance to the slide and BOOM you flip the car......curb...pothole anything.....

sure you MIGHT not flip it but thats exactly why many vehicles flip.......are you willing to make a bet with your life that it won't flip? I am not.

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche