When I worked for Chrysler, I remember the Dodge Omni/Plymouth Horizon as having non-power brakes. I believe that it did have discs in the front, but, it stopped like it had all drums. Just slows the vehicle to a stop. Not a chance of locking up the wheels.

Bonehead,

It was called an "F" head engine. My FC 150 has one in it.

P E H

Jen Tay, as we can see from BHD, or in his case, we cannot see, any savings. Sometimes it is better to save $100 by spending $20 rather than to save the $20 now and risk losing several hundred. In BHD's case, he got off cheap. Totaled car. That can be replaced. Totaled BHD, well, you get the picture.

Gilly and other MB Techs used to tell me that the brakes were set up so that you changed brake pads then you changed both rotors and pads and then back to just pads, etc, etc. Now, I had another car where the rotors were not changed because it was a junker. Well one day, the rotors cracked when I was applying the brakes at 50 mph. I had fresh underwear at home and it was needed.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

And that thing has a stoke about as long as your forearm right........and a bore about the size of a soda can...

I keep confusing the "F" head engine with the "L" head engine....I guess the "L" head was the flathead......

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
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Section 609 MVAC Certified
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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

What kind of car was this? Was it an older (probably American) car with cast iron rotors? Those things were tough, but didn't dissipate heat very well. With the soft metal alloys that MB uses I don't think the rotors would be as likely to crack...but stranger things have happened.

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1982 300D, black w/ palomino leather, 203K
2001 E320, champagne, 105K (Mom's)
1999 Dodge Dakota, squeaky & battered, 142K

Not sure what they were. it was a 89 Merkur Scorpio. German Ford.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

"The truck had larger brakes than the CJ5 did.....as you had the Spicer axels adn the CJ had the Dana axels."

It was the 2WD version with Willys' own design of independent suspension. The lower control arms were the spring, a transverse leaf spring like an old flathead Ford. It was similar to the Planar independent used by Studebaker in the 30's.

"I would not have believe someone built a motor with the intake valve in the head (and a big one too) and had the exhaust valve in the block............."

This was a very sophisticated design for the time. As you noticed, it allowed for a much bigger set of valves than you could fit in an OHV head over such a narrow bore. And it gave a better combustion chamber shape than a flathead. Rolls Royce featured an F head design for years and so did several other high grade cars of the classic era. It only became obsolete when the short stroke, big bore type motor allowed larger valves in an OHV engine.

In the old long stroke engine days an OHV was inferior to a good flathead because it was restricted to such small valves. The F head combined the good points of the flathead and OHV designs.

Even new pads will take 0.020" metal off rotors until they are broken in. The ONLY ways to tell you need rotors is with a micrometer and dial gauge w/magnetic base (Unless there is visible damage such as cracks or heat checks). If they are below minimum thickness or have 0.003"+ run-out, then you should replace them. I WILL NEVER MACHINE ROTORS. Why? Even rotors with captive bearing races are not very expensive. If you machine 0.030"+ off your rotors, I'd bet you money that you will be back within 2 months for "vibrations between 40 and 60mph."

I've even had a come-back on a Mitsubishi Montero LS where I did only the front brakes. Turns out she had the rears done at a "quick-brakes" type place after I serviced her SUV and they sold her a "new" rotor that had been cut 0.050" BELOW the scrap specs! Needless to asy, I called them and had a few choice words with their boss....

I'll bet you money that you will be back within 5 minutes for the very same vibration. The chance of machining the rotor and maintaining a runout of less than .001 with respect to the bearing race is just about zero. On a fixed caliper, any runout above this level will be felt as vibration through the steering.

My ex-girlfriend has a 325i Convertiable (1989) and her steering wheel used to shake about 20 degrees off of straight ahead when you braked hard at like 55MPH....very scary.

I machined the rotors for her and they have worked great ever since...usually they are replaced on a BMW obviously but she didn't have the money to replace them so I just visited a friends shop and did the work (for free )

The german steel is good stuff to machine. Not sure how her brakes got warped so bad but I taught her a good lesson on how not to warp them again...

ill second that. i work there and we can make them look like new.

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have no worries.....President Obama swears "If you like your gun, you can keep it

Jen,

Bonehead's example is comparing apples to oranges. Maybe that's why he is called bonehead, LOL.

If the brakes work well and they pass the "stomp the pedal test" I explained earlier, you have no problems.

P E H

he says there are brake problems....if you do anything short of fixing them correctly then you are playing russian roulette....


there is no apple and oranges thing.

running on shot brakes untill they fail is exactly like driving on bald tires a few thousand miles more to save spending a few bucks......

Both cases you never really know when the devil is going to jump up and bite you for doing it. You might get away with it...or you might not....you never know now do you.

the "its fine if you stomp and they stop" argument works righ tup until the rotor seperates during a panic stop..then what?

Have you seen his car..or for that matter have any of us.

Saftey issues are more important the this weeks date hopeing for a chance to get laid......

If the devil jumps up and bites you then you will be out a car (like I was) or far worse.

and by the way...all brakes usually work right up to the point they stop working. There isn't always a lot of warning that Joe average might notice.

I never said to blindly trust the shop either......

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

...........ROTF..............Jen is going to love this. I don't think she is in the category of "hoping for a chance to get laid"......................ROTF.................you really are a Bonehead sometimes.

... never looked at "her" profile before to realise Jentay was a she.....that would change things a lot...

Like my wife says....women don't only have the keys to the Vault...they own the bank.

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche