I have a 69 220d/8, which obviously doesn't have a fuel heater in the tank. At what temperature does #2 diesel begin to gel, so as it can no longer make it to the IP? Do truck stops sell #1 fuel in the winter? Are there any anti-gelling additive's I should use? I'll be driving through Minnesota, SDakota & Montana, so am expecting very low temperature's. Any help would be appreciated.

I believe that the #2 suppliers automatically change the "blend" of diesel depending on the area, which is why your fuel mileage goes down in winter... there is less actual diesel fuel and more anti-gel addititive (actually, I think they just refine it as #1.5).

So long as you fill up at local truck stops (ie don't fill up in AL and drive due north an entire tank and expect to have liquid fuel in the morning) you should be fine. The colder of an area you travel through, the diesel should be blended properly for the temperatures in that area.

Enjoy the nice scenic drive! Having a 220D sure helps you enjoy the view

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John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 240k
'87 300TD - 318k

Thanks Tom,
That put's my mind at ease. This forum has been of invaluable help to me. It's a wondrous thing that pc's and the internet have done to help people out. The buy/sell stuff is necessary, I know, but the exchange of information learned by those from experience and study is great.

In North Dakota some stations pre-blend it others don't. The ones that don't have their pumps clearly marked which is #1 and which is #2. I prefer to blend my own at the pump. I usually dump in about 5 gallons of #1 to a fill on my 300-D. I have a loss of power and mileage but I will sacrifice that knowing that it won't gel and make me walk in a blizzard.

__________________
1983 300-D turbo
1985 300-D turbo
1959 Harley Panhead chopper
1929 Ford coupe restored
I hang out with Boneheaddoctor at Schuman Automotive OBK#5
All liberals are mattoids but not all mattoids are liberal.

You'll see premium diesel up here, but then you're trusting the station to get the mix right - which isn't too smart up here in cold weather... ...he's in his warm bed in the morning and you're 400mi away with a gelled fuel line. Start mixing at 32F. I keep it simple and go 50/50 to 10F, then straight #1. Doesn't hurt to keep a 1gal jug of #1 in the trunk just in case a filter ices up and you have to change it on the road (hint: change filter before the trip). You'll need a warm garage if the fuel lines gell up so mix as early as you can.

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daBenz - 1970 220D

Straight #1 isn't good for these engines... It has very little lubricity, and is hard on your IP.

Quality anti-gel additives rock these days. Adding Powerservice Arctic Express to straight #2, for instance, lowers gel point to around -40F, better than a 50/50 blend. Even the regular anti-gels work very well.

My technique in cold areas is to add a bit of anti-gel (the recommended amount) to my tank before filling up, then I try to shop at truck stops, who have more pressure to sell a good winterized blend, because the trucking industry can't grind to a halt just because of some cold snap.

Then, I carry a bottle of Diesel 911 just in case, its the only additive that can actually de-gel gelled fuel, the others just prevent gelling, but needed to be added before it happens.

I try not to go over 20 or 30% kerosene, because of its lubrication issues. Using my method I've never had regular diesel gel up on me, even while travelling north, or going through parts of canada.

peace,
sam

__________________
"That f***in' biodiesel is makin' me hungry."

1982 300TD Astral Silver w/ 250k (BIO BNZ)
2001 Aprilia SR50 Corsa Red w/ 5.5k (>100 MPG)

phidauex: I know people (wrecker operators) who would like you to drive your car and your wallet up here, especially for an overnight stay. Forecast for tonight is 0F and it's not winter yet.

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daBenz - 1970 220D

Hey, don't get all snippy with me now. All I'm saying is that Mercedes would rather you not run #1 straight in your engine, its not good for the injection pumps. The trucking industry still works in ND during the winter, and I promise they aren't running around on 100% kerosene.

Desperate times call for desperate measures, but if people are going to make a habit of mostly #1 blends, its a good idea to use something to bring the lubricity back up.

peace,
sam

__________________
"That f***in' biodiesel is makin' me hungry."

1982 300TD Astral Silver w/ 250k (BIO BNZ)
2001 Aprilia SR50 Corsa Red w/ 5.5k (>100 MPG)

I wouldn't run more than about 30% #1 under any conditions. IIRC, my manual recommends a maximum of about 30%. Straight #2 is fine until it's well below freezing. I've run diesel pump fuel (premixed, I assume) at -10F without problems. If it gets seriously cold I usually add an anti-gel additive. I'm not interested in buying a new IP.

Folks,

It gets chilly sometimes in NC. Over the last 3 years we have had our share of 15* nights and the car started right up the next morning. I put a few oz. of powerserv in usually, but that is all. I don't believe the local stations treat their fuel. I do buy it at a local Hess / Wilco gas station with an active diesel pump that gets a lot of the local light commercial diesel customers ( dump trucks, Powerstrokes, that kind of stuff) so it is pretty fresh fuel.

To be fair, it will typically warm up the next day to over freezing so this is not a loooong hard freeze. There are definite frozen puddles around in the mornings.

Chuck

Seriously I don't think Dabenz is snippy with you. We are just telling the facts. We live in a very harsh climate up here. I've seen alot of people from the south come up here in the winter totally unprepared and left totally shocked. North Dakota, Montana, and Minnesota can be a frozen hell in January. Yes the trucking industry up here works during the winter because most of the guys are prepared. Believe me there is nothing worse than having to walk in below zero weather with a 30 to 40 mile hour wind blowing and in North Dakota and Montana it can be many miles before you get to the nearest town or even farm yard. I'm not being snippy either I'm just saying if you travel up here in the winter be prepared and be carefull. Everybody has their own idea how to keep the fuel from gelling. What ever works so you don't get stalled.

__________________
1983 300-D turbo
1985 300-D turbo
1959 Harley Panhead chopper
1929 Ford coupe restored
I hang out with Boneheaddoctor at Schuman Automotive OBK#5
All liberals are mattoids but not all mattoids are liberal.

I guess you guys are getting cabin fever early this year... J/K

No, I don't live in a very cold place at the moment, its true, but I've lived over 10,000ft around Leadville, CO, and while working in forestry in CO, so I've been in some pretty cold places.

I wasn't suggesting going unprepared, or simply trusting the pump blends to get you through, I was just reminding people that our cars are not supposed to use more than 30% #1 diesel, because of the low lubricity. There are anti-gel additives that work just as well, or better, than 30% kerosene, and other additives that will degel a gelled fuel, and they are better for your engine than pure kerosene.

Do what you need to do to get you through the winter, but there is more than one way to do it, and my advice isn't coming from Florida or anything.

peace,
sam

__________________
"That f***in' biodiesel is makin' me hungry."

1982 300TD Astral Silver w/ 250k (BIO BNZ)
2001 Aprilia SR50 Corsa Red w/ 5.5k (>100 MPG)

Cabin fever does have me already. I can't wait for spring so I can rip down the river road with my Benz again.

__________________
1983 300-D turbo
1985 300-D turbo
1959 Harley Panhead chopper
1929 Ford coupe restored
I hang out with Boneheaddoctor at Schuman Automotive OBK#5
All liberals are mattoids but not all mattoids are liberal.

phidauex: didn't mean to sound snippy - my computer skills aren't good enough to figure out those "smilies" - I remember when the manual hand-crank cash registers were NOT unusual. On a more serious note, people die up here because of vehicle problems or going out when they shouldn't. It's a low population region, so you have to depend on yourself - and that may be a strange thought these days in other parts of the country.

#1 is fine with lubricants. #2 is fine with lubricants. It's the sulphur that provided the lubrication, but those high sulphur days went away decades ago. Kerosine is scarce and expensive up here because we use #1 wherever kerosine is specified.

Up here, the trucks that run #2 or a #1/#2 blend in winter have a heated garage, tank heaters, and a heated water separator to go along with their high-return fuel systems. Our benz's have a low-return fuel system, so the fuel lines can and will gell just as fast as the filter. A moot point for daBenz, of course, as it's tucked away for the winter "smilie - aarrrgh!".

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daBenz - 1970 220D

Thank you for all your replies to my questiion, especially the ND member whose name I don't have in front of me. I'll be sure to carry that compound that can actually chemically "melt" an engine with gelled fuel. I'll do the 30% #1 / 70% #2 when possible and use one of the additive's mentioned.