Clutch/pressureplate questions - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JDmills · #1 11-19-2005, 03:24 PM

I am planning a engine swap: Where a 617 will go in to a mid forty's dodge Pick up. At the moment I forsee the largest challange is to mate the existing dodge bellhousing to its new power plant. But before I get to that, may be it is best to find out if the flywheel is big enough/ or too big to fit in the dodge bell housing.

In visualizing this swap, I would imaging getting a flywheel out of a 240D, and may be the pressre plate. But The question I have right now is how big is the flywheel and Pressure plate?

My dodge flywheel is 14 inchs across, but the clutch disk is only a 10 inch span. If the Mercedes flywheel is close to that, may be it would be as easy as drilling a few holes in it and putting the dodge presure plate on it....

Also If you have any experience on engine to Transmission swaps, feel free to throw out any wisdom, you may have gained from the adventure.
Thanks,
Jason

300SDog · #2 11-19-2005, 06:34 PM

The 240D flywheel wont fit the 617 engine.

t walgamuth · #3 11-19-2005, 07:34 PM

will fit the 617. many have done it.

the 240 clutch is about 8.5" dia. so your dodge pp will not fit it. i would prob try to use the 240 pp. i dont know the size and length of the dodge input shaft. prob way too big to fit the 240 or 617 stuff.

tom w

JDmills · #4 11-19-2005, 10:38 PM

Thanks for your replys. I will have to continue seeking solutions.... and may be a stock clutch for the 240 will be the way to go to begin with.

back to the drawing boards, and dreaming sessions!

300SDog · #5 11-20-2005, 09:36 AM

"the 240 flywheel will fit the 617. many have done it."

If this is true, then 300D automatic to standard conversion is just a matter of installing 240D flywheel, clutch, drivetrain, etc.....

Yet the only shop I've ever known that specializes in these conversions sends away to Germany for 617 flywheels, I wonder why?

JD, if it was me I'd think about dropping a small Cummins diesel into your Dodge. Then you might even get expert help from the factory on how it could be done.

t walgamuth · #6 11-20-2005, 09:41 AM

that the 617 and 616 flywheels are different. they do carry different part numbers. you said it wouldn t fit. it will fit. it will bolt up and the car will drive with the 240 fly wheel on the 617 motor. they are different and i dont know exactly how.

but it will fit.

tom w

JDmills · #7 11-20-2005, 10:25 AM

The 4BT Cummins is a fine motor, and I have played with that idea as well, but it shakes a lot, and the stock transmission would never hold up to the torque it produces... Also it only turns about 2800 RPM So I would need new rear axle gears or Huge tires. Then axle shafts, as the stock motor can snap them if you abuse them. As the Rear end ratio is a 5.83:1 So I Dont really need more torque, just more RPM's and the sound of a diesel..

Was thinking that the 617 would be a nice fit due to it's 4900RPM Governer, and may be most importantly I have one sitting in the barn.

DieselDog, Who is it that send's away to germany for flywheels? I'm willing to look them up, especially if they could get a flywheel that is a bit bigger. I imagine that the 617 has been used in trucks somewhere in the world, so it has to have a flywheel/pressure plate combo that would be closer to the 10 inch size I am looking to replace...

t walgamuth · #8 11-20-2005, 10:47 AM

mercedes use the same diameter flywheel/ flex plate and the same teeth and starter placement.

the 280 sl flywheel uses a 9" clutch. ( i happen to have one).

the 280sl flywheel weighs 18#, the 240 28#. dont know what the 300d weighs. i think similar to the 240.

tom w

P.E.Haiges · #9 11-20-2005, 11:00 AM

JD,

I would be worried that he 240D clutch is not strong enough to handle the much greater torque of the 617 engine. The 240D clutch may slip and wear out quickly.

You might be better to get a 617 flywheel and clutch.

P E H

bullwinkle · #10 11-20-2005, 11:16 AM

The way to go would be to find a manny tranny out of an Euro 300D-you are going to have major starter alignment problems otherwise, could probably lengthen the shifter and linkages to fit, and make a clutch linkage for the clutch master cylinder. Those mid '40s Dodge pickups are pretty light, probably would be similar to a 300D in acceleration/mileage-it would be like Daimler/Chrysler 60 years early!

#11 11-20-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.E.Haiges

JD,

I would be worried that he 240D clutch is not strong enough to handle the much greater torque of the 617 engine. The 240D clutch may slip and wear out quickly.

You might be better to get a 617 flywheel and clutch.

P E H

It's been said many, many, many times. The 240D clutch/flywheel/pressure plate/tranny will all hold up fine to the HP and torque of the OM617.

OM616:
72hp
90ft ft lbs torque

OM617a:
125hp (+53hp difference)
180ft lbs torque (+90ft lbs difference)

It's not like we are throwing in a 300hp small block. Talk with Tom J, he has done many conversions and has been driving his own turbo300D with a manual for years.

300SDog · #12 11-20-2005, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDmills

DieselDog, Who is it that send's away to germany for flywheels? I'm willing to look them up, especially if they could get a flywheel that is a bit bigger. I imagine that the 617 has been used in trucks somewhere in the world, so it has to have a flywheel/pressure plate combo that would be closer to the 10 inch size I am looking to replace...

"All Mercedes" located at NYC suburb (914)490-3431 or (914)966-3666 or (914)975-0440. Chuck Cummings is the shop owner, claims to have done more auto/manual 300D conversions than anybody else on the East Coast.

Years ago his rates were about $1500 for the whole job from nuts to soup, not sure what he charges today. That includes 617 flywheel spin ballanced to itself, clutch and 300D rear end plus 240D tranny attached to the 5 banger, not sure what he uses for driveshaft but probly the 240D.

Are those straight cut gears in the '40s Dodge? If so I'll betcha they've got balls enough for the small Cummins. Or dig around the boneyards and scrounge up some kinda small Detroit, Cat or Ford diesel block, then cook up a rear end with whatever gears you want. I sincerely believe you'll have better luck with American parts for clutch, bell housing and motor mount adapt.