Yikes!!! 1999 E300 in snow!! - Page 6 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#76 12-12-2005, 02:52 AM

Personally the most dangerous thing on the road is the OTHER DRIVERS...espically those whos driving skill has not improved since they stole mommy and daddys car and went joyriding to the drive in on Friday night!.

Its sorta the same argument surround speeding and all the jazz associated with that. Speed is only a factor...almost rarely the inital cause for problems...

For example, Autobahn driving. Everyone can drive fast if they drive intelligently.

But then again...its not exactly like you need to be the brightest bulb in the box in the US to get your drivers licence

In fact most people I see on my way to school are more like a left-hand-thread, cracked-glass, half-filled-with-the-wrong-gas, 3/4-too-short-of-a-filament, 240V-version-in-the-120V-socket sort of variety...

...its not pretty out there.

invisik · #77 02-02-2006, 10:48 PM

The problem I see with the turbo diesels in the snow is when the turbo kicks in. You're fine from a dead stop until about 2500rpm. When the turbo starts up there is such a big surge of power it always breaks traction. So then you left off the pedal, but then have to speed up again and the cycle starts--constantly fighting the turbo, trying to find the balance between acceleration, traction, and rpm.

Snow tires do a great job at keeping extra traction that you need. You can't speed up any slower as the turbo brings on the power at about the same rate at any pedal position. My 2.5 Turbo has tons of lag (you can watch your speed increase while the rpm's stay the same for quite some time) so the boost comes in really hard. My 87 SDL had the same issue, but not quite as pronounced.

Not sure if a "winter-mode engine chip" that could smooth out the turbo is available, but that would certainly fit the bill. I don't think a transmission winter-mode would help.

As I recall, the 98/99 E300 was more "on turbo" all the time then my car is, so it might be easier to control.

But yes, the #1 thing is snow tires.

-m

pawoSD · #78 02-02-2006, 11:25 PM

If there's a sufficient amount of snow my car breaks loose a tire as soon as I press the pedal at all, there's just too much torque at that low of a speed. I usually just go...let off...go...let off...till I am moving along, then I can add power without risking an instant traction loss......

Thankfully here in GR we've had only 2 days of snow in the past 60+ days! It snowed 8" in one night, stopped. Melted the next day, then it was gone. A couple weeks ago it snowed about 4 inches of snow/ice mix, that melted the next day too. Currently there is 0 snow outside, and none in the forecast, temps have been ranging from 28 degrees at night to nearly 50 in the day sometimes, really a crazy year... No salt!!! Yay!!!

If we can make it a few more weeks or into March with no real snow, then we're safe for the season.

aklim · #79 02-03-2006, 01:21 AM

I haven't put snow tires on but we haven't had too much snow. The "W" and "S" modes seem to work well. I switch it to "W" when I can see snow on the ground. In the past, Blizzaks work very very well for me.

keryan · #80 02-22-2006, 10:24 PM

I have driven rear wheel drive in Minnesota winters for 30 years. We do get heavy snow here and my favorite car to drive in the snow is any rear drive Volvo with manual transmission. I have always been able to get from one place to another. I have even motored by 4x4's who have been stuck, and this without snow tires. My M-B's must have snow tires in order to get around. I guess growing up in snow country one learns how to deal with this weather.

Kevin E. Ryan
Winona, MN

1980 Volvo 245(425,000 miles)
1988 M-B 190E 2.3(300,000 miles)
1997 M-B E320

#81 02-25-2006, 05:16 PM

My 1996 E300D is also the WORST car I've ever driven in the snow.

The rear-end DOES want to move to the front when you let off the pedal. If you are faced with that situation again, pop it into neutral if you have to when it happens. It releases the drag on the rear wheels and you will then have all four wheels rolling in equilibrium and you can apply the brakes without fear of having to drive the car backwards at 40 mph. You can then engage the tranny again carefully when you feel you are going slow enough. Again, only do this if you have to get out of a jam. It saved me from running off the road. I should get snow tires, which I know will help. Next year.....

DieselAddict · #82 02-25-2006, 09:29 PM

That's weird, but my 96 E300D is the best snow car I've ever had, and I've had many cars. It does have ETS which helps.

#83 02-26-2006, 07:59 AM

I've also had 3 rear driven Volvos. Loved the cars, but it's a MUST to have 4 snow tires on those. I put them on the Volvos and they were just great. My E300D is worse than the Volvos and it is probably due to the wider tires. I really need to do the snow tire thing on my E300D.....

DieselAddict · #84 02-26-2006, 01:57 PM

Tires make a huge difference. I have decent all-seasons on mine, and I'm sure it would handle even better in snow if I had real winter tires, but we usually don't get enough snow here to justify the purchase. That's why I just carry snow chains in the trunk for emergencies.

Hatterasguy · #85 02-26-2006, 04:06 PM

I can't justify snow tires in CT because I only get caught in snow bad enough to need them a couple of times a year. Maybe if I was going to VT every weekend, and was making enough money where I could throw $1k at snow tires and wheels for them without a second thought I'd do it!

No offense to you guys with W210 but if you think they are bad in the snow you don't know what bad is. You have a LSD rear and traction control. I can do just fine in my W126's without that stuff.

In short learn to drive! The rear should only come around if you downshift for some reason. Keep the trans in D and in W mode. When going down a steep hill it always put the car in N.

#86 02-27-2006, 06:32 AM

I live in CT too and I know how to drive in all kinds of snow and ice. I never had any fear or lack of success in snow until I bought this 96 E300D. It is the WORST car I've owned in terms of snow driving performance. I don't downshift normally (I've tried it though) and the back end wants to swing around when you decelerate in slippery conditions on the highway (depends on the speed you are going of course). I don't have W on my tranny either. Only D. Again, terrible car in the snow. What kind of tires are you using? Maybe I'll switch to what you have.

Hatterasguy · #87 02-27-2006, 03:53 PM

Are you used to FWD cars? Because compared to a proper fwd car any rwd car is pretty poor.

My friend stuck middle of the road Bridgestones on his. He keeps that thing up at Uconn and goes through some heavy snow.

He has the 98 E300D with the turbo and 5spd. The turbo makes things interesting as soon as boost builds the wheels spin.

babymog · #88 02-27-2006, 04:54 PM

RWD rocks in snow, in real snow anyway. In light snow FWD is okay, especially if you like going straight when you try to accelerate around a turn, like going off the crown every time you accelerate to pass a car, spinning around backwards in a vehicle with a significant front weight bias. AWD is where it's at on snow, and not that 4matic crap either, had one, left it home in bad conditions and drove the quattro. Something kind of inadequate about a system that has to react to slip, once you slip on ice it's kind of too late, permanent AWD is what you need. Sorry Steyr-Puch.
I was driving my first FWD (audi) in a snowstorm years ago, couldn't get around in traffic, stopped at a car lot and bought a used Fiat Spider which I happily drove for the rest of the snow storm. After the storm passed I picked up the audi and bought my first quattro.
For those who don't drive in really harsh conditions, FWD is fine, and if your last RWD was a domestic with a big cast-iron V8 over the front wheels and no weight in the rear, worn out tires, and you traded it for a front-heavy FWD with decent radials, duh, the new car will be much better in snow. Marketing is great isn't it?
Blizzaks are okay, but once you wear down to the 60% point and get into the harder durometer rubber you might as well be driving on the rims.
Arctic Alpins are good ice tires, but I hated mine on wet snow, no grip at all.
Nokian makes the best snow and ice tires in my experience, although like all of the other snow tires I've had (including the Arctic Alpins) they are like driving on marbles on wet and dry roads, lots of tread squirm, some models are better than others.
Tires, tires, tires. My Pirelli P-0 tires on the quattro are so bad, even with AWD, I would sooner leave my car at the office than drive it home on those tires in the snow. I suspect that the tires on your E300 are bad, really bad on snow. Many "sport" tires are, especially if a few years old or some miles on them. The sipes in the tires are what grip the snow, most tires' sipes don't go the entire depth of the tread, so 50% tires are missing many of the sipes and the grip that goes with it. Most sport tires don't have enough edges or the rubber compound to really make it in snow, they aren't designed to. Many OEM tires also have harder rubber at the base of the tread, the soft-grippy stuff makes the car ride and handle great new, but those half-life tires are at best summer tires. Buy snow tires, buy Hakks (Nokian). There are lots of "studless ice" and snow tires, most any of them are better than what you have.
Driving in snow at 60? If I have to slow down that much I guess. It's a matter of what your car and personal skill level can handle. To the person who hates the SUV in the rear-view-mirror on the two-lane, stay home. I am similarly annoyed when joe-sixpack is driving his oldsmobuick down the left lane of the expressway, flashing me with his high-beams, because I just passed him on four studless ice tires with great traction at 70 and he's beyond his limitations on his bald tires and dragging brakes at 60. He's the dangerous one. I drive within my safe limits, you drive within yours, we stay out of each other's way. Not to say I'm a speed demon, but if I can run 20% faster with 50% better equipment, I will. That's why I buy better equipment. Three of my vehicles wear snows all-around in the winter, when the roads are bad they come out. I really don't understand how or why people drive in the winter without these necessary safety features, but they do.

- Jeff Miller

#89 02-27-2006, 08:33 PM

My tires are lousy in the snow. I just choose (for once in my driving life) to not drive in the snow. When I get 4 snow tires, then I'll venture out in it again. For now I'm not going to risk crashing myself, or into someone else, despite having good driving skills in the stuff. Besides, it's mayhem on the roads when it snows. You have all the people you described, then people driving 15 and won't get out of the way even if they COULD pull over into a parking area on the side of the road. My 1 hour commute turned into 3 in these situations. I don't need it any more.

DieselAddict · #90 02-27-2006, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymog

RWD rocks in snow, in real snow anyway. In light snow FWD is okay, especially if you like going straight when you try to accelerate around a turn, like going off the crown every time you accelerate to pass a car, spinning around backwards in a vehicle with a significant front weight bias. AWD is where it's at on snow, and not that 4matic crap either, had one, left it home in bad conditions and drove the quattro. Something kind of inadequate about a system that has to react to slip, once you slip on ice it's kind of too late, permanent AWD is what you need. Sorry Steyr-Puch.
I was driving my first FWD (audi) in a snowstorm years ago, couldn't get around in traffic, stopped at a car lot and bought a used Fiat Spider which I happily drove for the rest of the snow storm. After the storm passed I picked up the audi and bought my first quattro.
For those who don't drive in really harsh conditions, FWD is fine, and if your last RWD was a domestic with a big cast-iron V8 over the front wheels and no weight in the rear, worn out tires, and you traded it for a front-heavy FWD with decent radials, duh, the new car will be much better in snow. Marketing is great isn't it?
Blizzaks are okay, but once you wear down to the 60% point and get into the harder durometer rubber you might as well be driving on the rims.
Arctic Alpins are good ice tires, but I hated mine on wet snow, no grip at all.
Nokian makes the best snow and ice tires in my experience, although like all of the other snow tires I've had (including the Arctic Alpins) they are like driving on marbles on wet and dry roads, lots of tread squirm, some models are better than others.
Tires, tires, tires. My Pirelli P-0 tires on the quattro are so bad, even with AWD, I would sooner leave my car at the office than drive it home on those tires in the snow. I suspect that the tires on your E300 are bad, really bad on snow. Many "sport" tires are, especially if a few years old or some miles on them. The sipes in the tires are what grip the snow, most tires' sipes don't go the entire depth of the tread, so 50% tires are missing many of the sipes and the grip that goes with it. Most sport tires don't have enough edges or the rubber compound to really make it in snow, they aren't designed to. Many OEM tires also have harder rubber at the base of the tread, the soft-grippy stuff makes the car ride and handle great new, but those half-life tires are at best summer tires. Buy snow tires, buy Hakks (Nokian). There are lots of "studless ice" and snow tires, most any of them are better than what you have.
Driving in snow at 60? If I have to slow down that much I guess. It's a matter of what your car and personal skill level can handle. To the person who hates the SUV in the rear-view-mirror on the two-lane, stay home. I am similarly annoyed when joe-sixpack is driving his oldsmobuick down the left lane of the expressway, flashing me with his high-beams, because I just passed him on four studless ice tires with great traction at 70 and he's beyond his limitations on his bald tires and dragging brakes at 60. He's the dangerous one. I drive within my safe limits, you drive within yours, we stay out of each other's way. Not to say I'm a speed demon, but if I can run 20% faster with 50% better equipment, I will. That's why I buy better equipment. Three of my vehicles wear snows all-around in the winter, when the roads are bad they come out. I really don't understand how or why people drive in the winter without these necessary safety features, but they do.

- Jeff Miller

I agree with most of what you said, particularly about FWD vehicles. They're ok in the snow, but I'd take a balanced RWD vehicle over a FWD vehicle for snow driving every time. The main problem with FWD vehicles as I see it, is that when you lose traction you also lose steering ability. I'd rather have the correctable oversteer of a RWD vehicle than the understeer of a FWD vehicle which can be more tricky to correct.

But I strongly disagree with your statement "To the person who hates the SUV in the rear-view-mirror on the two-lane, stay home." I hate them, especially when they're on my bumper on snow/ice. The fact that most of the vehicles that I see in the ditch when it's slick outside are SUV's doesn't help in reinforcing the image that they know what they're doing. It's usually the opposite... "I have 4-wheel drive, nothing can stop me."