VW Injector similar to MB? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cook · #1 12-25-2005, 08:03 PM

I was reading an interesting thread where it was noticed that the VW Rabbit diesel injectors are very similar to the 1980's MB injectors. Similar pop pressure, shell and nozzell look excatly the same, etc.

Anyone have a way to tell if they ARE different or not? The VW nozzels are much, much less expensive.

If they are different, anyone know what the difference is?

oldnavy · #2 12-25-2005, 09:34 PM

Nozzle size I would guess, also over all size I would think be different. How much fuel does a 1.6L diesel need compared to a 2.4L MB 240D or 3L turbo.

dkveuro · #3 12-25-2005, 09:44 PM

The 130bar injector used in the Rabbit is made in France with Bosch #KCA 30 S 79.....VW #068 130 202 F.
The Mercedes 135bar injectors for non turbo are made in Germany, Bosch #741.
KCA 30 S44.
I don't have a turbo injector on the bench so someone else might chime in with part number........for many years I have bought the Rabbit injector pintal/pintle assembly to use in both because they where readily available.

Under a magnifying glass there seems no difference. Although I had one set of 50 arrive with cross drilled pintal/pintle tips.

.The Quantity of fuel injected is a function of the IP not the injector.

.

cook · #4 12-26-2005, 03:32 PM

This is getting very interesting.....

Just to help me understand the different parts of an injector better, is there a good diagram around that would list the major parts of an injector? For example, the tips, pintail, etc.

cook · #5 12-26-2005, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkveuro

The 130bar injector used in the Rabbit is made in France with Bosch #KCA 30 S 79.....VW #068 130 202 F.
The Mercedes 135bar injectors for non turbo are made in Germany, Bosch #741.
KCA 30 S44.
I don't have a turbo injector on the bench so someone else might chime in with part number........for many years I have bought the Rabbit injector pintal assembly to use in both because they where readily available.

Under a magnifying glass there seems no difference. Although I had one set of 50 arrive with cross drilled pintal tips.

.The Quantity of fuel injected is a function of the IP not the injector.

.

Trying to be sure I understand... Which two cars do you use the Rabbit pintal in? I'm hoping its turbo and non-turbo MB.

dkveuro · #6 12-26-2005, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cook

Trying to be sure I understand... Which two cars do you use the Rabbit pintal in? I'm hoping its turbo and non-turbo MB.

VW, Audi, Mercedes and Volvo.

http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/SAE/vwtdsae.shtml

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rs899 · #7 12-26-2005, 08:40 PM

DKVEURO-

So, is it your opinion that a VW nozzle is close enough to use in a 240D or 300D non-turbo? At least better than using some wretched original injector with 200k miles on it? These are about a third the price of a MBZ nozzle...

Rick

dkveuro · #8 12-27-2005, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rs899

DKVEURO-
So, is it your opinion that a VW nozzle is close enough to use in a 240D or 300D non-turbo? At least better than using some wretched original injector with 200k miles on it? These are about a third the price of a MBZ nozzle...
Rick

Your cryptic reply will be ignored. If you wish for diffinitive information on this ...ask and you MAY recieve

In the meantime, FYI. The prechamber on the MB and VW are different. One is a 'swirl' type the other is a 'diffuser' type.
.

.

derherr65 · #9 05-12-2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkveuro

The Quantity of fuel injected is a function of the IP not the injector.

That's what I thought, but then why do dodge cummins and volkwagen guys get more power by using bigger injectors?

#10 05-12-2007, 05:40 PM

A common upgrade for the IDI VW people is to upgrade to injectors from the OM617a.

I'd bet that if we can find bigger injectors/nozzles for our cars, there would be at least a little power to gain.

derherr65 · #11 05-12-2007, 08:10 PM

FromTDIclub forum "Larger injectors are unique among the major power adders in that they inject a larger amount of fuel within the same amount of crankshaft rotation, and thus, for a given power delivery, they keep smoke and exhaust temperature to the minimum while also avoiding the increase in peak cylinder pressure caused by over-advanced start-of-injection timing."

Sounds like my kind of mod.

Stevo · #12 05-12-2007, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derherr65

That's what I thought, but then why do dodge cummins and volkwagen guys get more power by using bigger injectors?

Good question, I know that the Jimmy 71 series engines have different injectors to push more fuel through to acheeve more HP.

derherr65 · #13 05-12-2007, 08:07 PM

Mindless drivel... ignore.

Diesel911 · #14 06-13-2009, 11:59 AM

My 1982 6 Cyl Volvo Diesel is made by VW and has a lot of the same parts in common with the VW Rabbits of that year.

I also have a Pop/Nozzle Tester and rebuild my own Injectors.

My experience with the Bosch VW Nozzles compared to the Bosch Nozzles for Mercedes is that the VW Nozzles have a narrower spary pattern when you give them a lot of fuel. At an idle quanity of Fuel passes through the central Hole that is drilled down the center of the Bosch for Mercedes Bosh Nozzles.

When you give the Bosch Nozzles above idle quanity fuel it has a slightly wider spray pattern.

I presently have gone other way and put the Monark Nozzles for Mercedes into the Volvo (the produced no change at all from stock ).