Anyone ever heard of Frantz/Motorguard bypass oil filters? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

phasmatisnox · #1 09-25-2006, 01:09 PM

I read some interesting information about 'Frantz' filters, which have apparently been around since the 30s, which use- get this- a roll of toilet paper as a filter element. Now, the initial reaction is bad, but hey- we all use paper filters because they're the best, right? I've heard (from their own site, given) about heavy-duty diesel engines running 500k+ miles with no oil change, just a filter element change and 1.5qt of new oil every 2k miles.

Here's the site I read: http://bypassfilter.com/faqs.htm

Anyone know anything, or have real-world experience?

rwthomas1 · #2 09-25-2006, 01:42 PM

Do a search on the web or any diesel truck/pickup forum and you will find these have been around a while. Some people love them, others doubt their claims but I have never seen anything to disprove their worth. The evidence is anecdotal but oil analysis has shown that they actually work. Other bypass setups work well too, with more conventional filter media.

The question is why do a bypass filter? MB's and most other diesel engines outlast the body of cars they are in with regular oil changes. The advantage to bypass filters is extended oil change intervals. Older IDI diesels like our MB's produce more soot and load the oil up faster than new diesels. Ultimately this soot level will overcome the oils ability to control it and then the oil will need to be changed. IIRC, there is no bypass filter that can remove ALL the soot and sometimes none at all. Oil analysis can be used to safely extend oil drain intervals if used carefully even without a bypass filter setup.

The other reason to install a bypass setup is environmental reasons. Simply put, extending oil drain intervals uses less resources. If the auto manufacturers installed them on every car the difference would be drastic. If you are the type of person that needs to make a difference then this may be a good reason.

So there are a few options:
-Install a bypass setup, perform oil analysis and extend the drain intervals.
-Perform oil analysis and safely extend drain intervals
-Change oil every 3K and enjoy long engine life anyway.

I have had oil analysis performed on two of my vehicles and it has indicated that I can safely extend the drain interval on both, which I have done. Why? it saves a bit of money in the long run and keeps me out from under the vehicles that much longer in the winter. I have chosen not to go to bypass filtration as it would take a very long time to pay back the cost of the filter system. Not cost effective to me. YRMV, however. RT

phasmatisnox · #3 09-25-2006, 05:35 PM

Thanks for your comments. I've heard a lot of stories about people doing almost no oil changes at all. I've also heard a heck of a lot about oil analysis- but where can I get that done? Do I send them a test tube of oil, or what? How much does it cost?

Hatterasguy · #4 09-25-2006, 07:48 PM

Here is a Frantz thread that I wrote a few years back.

#5 09-25-2006, 07:57 PM

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/search.php?searchid=914511

MS Fowler · #6 09-26-2006, 08:02 AM

I understand the economy of longer oil change intervals, but what is the cost of the oil analysis?
Last time I checked, it was cheaper to change out the oil than to pay for the analysis. Whats your experience?

92497pmu · #7 09-26-2006, 10:41 AM

My brother did this set up on his 2000 F250 PSD a few years back @ 30k miles. The frantz kit was like $100-200, I can't quite remember.

Pete is an engineer, has full records before/ after.
The truck is at 130k miles now, mixed daily use & pulling a 6-10k horse trailer.
He changes the TP filter about 1x/ month and the oil 1x per year. He uses Rotella in the Blue jug (I don't know what flavor this is).

We both have good results from oil analysis. I use AMSOIL full synthetic 5w-40 european in my benz. Change filter every 5k, oil and filter @ 15k. No loading of soot or wear metals. I have 60k of records and analysis like this - about a $100 oil change w AMSOIL- but lots less than $300 at the local dealer. I have had similar results with my car w/o the frantz filter.

Amsoil and Blackstone labs do analysis. Google them if you want.
Cost about $15-30 per test

He and I are mixed on the overall deal. Yeah it's probably worth it but it costs some $$. Longer interval is nice, more eco-bunny-hugger friendly.
Easier to change TP if you mount in a convenient place than on some vehicles. But it's pretty easy to change oil on an F250 and I think the e300 benz oil job is even easier.

I'm not firmly pro or against this setup though if you have the time/ $$
Phil

rwthomas1 · #8 09-26-2006, 11:10 AM

I use Blackstone Labs http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ and recommend them. Each analysis is $17. Not cheap but you don't have to do it all the time. I tested at the normal change interval while changing the oil. The analysis indicated that I could extend and Blackstone recommended a new interval. I then tried the new interval and tested again on the next oil change. Blackstone analysis indicated that I could extend again but the oil would definitely be at the end of its lifespan at that point. I chose to stay with the intermediate interval.

The point of analysis is to get a baseline for an engine. You do not have to test every time you change the oil once you know the engines characteristics. I test my engines just once a year now to confirm the extended interval is still appropriate. Additionally, oil analysis confirmed that I had a headgasket leak in my 300D as there were traces of coolant in the analysis results. Not enough that you would ever see it, but it was there. Funny thing about coolant in the oil is that by the time you can see it the bearings are toast. Oil analysis is a great way to get a snapshot of your engines health.

With the cost of analysis at $17 and only just doubling the oil change interval I am not really saving any money. I do however save time under the vehicles in winter which was the point. Usually I can do a change in the late fall and make it to spring. The other thing is less trips to the dump to get rid of waste oil. And less use of resources if thats your thing.

If I could say for sure that bypass filtration would DEFINITELY triple or quadruple the oil change intervals then it would be worth it to me to install them. Problem is that I have yet to see a bypass filter that can filter soot effectively and soot is the main issue in older diesels.

Another bypass supplier http://www.oilguard.com/

RT

badtrukrisin · #9 09-26-2006, 11:31 AM

Otherwise why would industrial engines applications use them. I have an Franz system on my 97 Powerstroke and I change oil around 20K. I change the tp at 4k and the full flow at 5k. I use Delo 400 and send a sample to blackstone once a year. Been on the truck since she was a baby. 150k presently. Plan on 500k+ before retiring but coud go many more miles I am sure. It has save me approx 50% on lube charges over the years. This is not something you would want if you only keep the vehicle for a short period but if it is a keeper, I'd recommend it. JMHO

Bud

Hatterasguy · #10 09-26-2006, 01:15 PM

The reason you see filters like Frantz on big rigs and heavy equipment is there engines cost tens of thousands to rebuild. So for example installing one on lets say a Cat 797:

Say you run it 350 days a year, if its at a mine it goes 24 hours a day=8,400 hours a year. Now figure that the thing probably holds 20 gallons of oil if not more, and changing it is down time. So spending $500 to plumb in a Frantz to not only maybe get a few thousand more hours between rebuilds, but also reduce down time for maintaince.

If one was to figure out what a 797 costs and how much its time is worth you can do a cost benifit on the Frantz and see if it pays.

badtrukrisin · #11 09-26-2006, 04:08 PM

Hatteras, I agree with your assessment of cost vs capital outlay. But since I run a turbo it says to change the oil at half intervals which equals 2500mi intervals. And I already had the filter from an 86 Ford van with a 6.9L diesel. I will probably keep it after I get rid of the F250. On the Powerstroke it is very easy because a pressure port and a return port are conveniently located by the spin on base. BTW, for those interested, because of orifice restrictions in the filter, only 10% of the volume is bypassed so bearing starvation isn't a problem. And it also adds some cooling to the oil as well.

Bud