power service additive. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

midenginev8 · #1 10-06-2006, 12:27 AM

Since the first time i filled up ive been using Power Service brand diesel fuel supplement.

my question is, Am i wasting my money? is this a helpful product? or just a gimick like most oil attitives?

if it is worthwhile to continue using a attitive then am i using the right one?

olsaltybastard · #2 10-06-2006, 12:45 AM

I keep a large supply of Diesel Kleen in the trunk and use it at every fillup. After being in Iraq for a year, I am all too aware of the issues that may happen when the injector pump isn't being lubed properly. We burn JP-4 in case anyone was wondering.

Shorebilly · #3 10-06-2006, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olsaltybastard

I keep a large supply of Diesel Kleen in the trunk and use it at every fillup. After being in Iraq for a year, I am all too aware of the issues that may happen when the injector pump isn't being lubed properly. We burn JP-4 in case anyone was wondering.

Ditto...........altho I only hauled vehicles and supplies to Saudi for Desert Shield/Storm Version 1.0......I have many millions of miles logged aboard Diesel Ships as an Engineer, and I have overhauled lots of injection pumps of various manufacture......lube of the pump plunger/barrel is of utmost importance......

Isn't JP-4 very similar to Kerosene???

Other stuff of Note:................
Never run out of fuel......if at all possible.......runs IP dry, not good.....
Never ever run Gasoline.......Never......Never......will seize up an IP in heartbeat......I was a Bosch tech for a bit....seen Dodge Cummins/Bosch IP's that this has happened to.....that's why gasoline voids warranty.....
Assure that your fuel is free of water......water in fuel will wreck your IP...
Keep those filters clean.......best method of keeping trash from inside IP....

SB

bill murrow · #4 10-06-2006, 07:41 AM

I use Pwer service. Not only for lube but also for injector cleaner and to keep the rest of my fuel system clean. It does work so you're not wasting your $.

In the 240 I use the PS silver. It increases the cetane by a few numbers. Need all the power I can get when driving the 240.

Cheers,

Bill

C Sean Watts · #5 10-06-2006, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olsaltybastard

I keep a large supply of Diesel Kleen in the trunk and use it at every fillup. After being in Iraq for a year, I am all too aware of the issues that may happen when the injector pump isn't being lubed properly. We burn JP-4 in case anyone was wondering.

I was just wonderin' is that JP-4 made in Kuwait? When I was last in the loop, (M 1 and 113) most of what was in stockpiles was JP-8, but I guess temp. where it is used makes a difference.

Ditto on the Diesel Kleen, it makes cold startups a good bit easier and even in the Arctic winters of RALEIGH NC

I've never had a gell problem.

uberwgn · #6 10-06-2006, 09:23 AM

I have permission to post this:

Quote:

Brian, we're just starting to get all sorts of unsavory reports concerning big diesel fuel leaks on older cars. Do any of the PS products control gasket/o-ring shrinkage? I was hoping this leaking issue was not going to be widespread but that appears to be wishful thinking on my part.

Thanks,

Quote:

When they reduced the sulfur level of the fuel the EPA also mandated that the aromatic content of ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel) Fuel also be lowered. This can affect seals in older equipment (on road and off-road). The older equipment has seals that need aromatics to keep them from shrinking. In 1993 when we first went from high sulfur (not greater than 5,000 parts per million sulfur) down to 500ppm sulfur the aromatics where also reduced and many fuel pumps and seals started leaking. The fix was to replace the seals with seals that did not need aromatics to keep them from shrinking.

With the introduction of ULSD it has been stated by the (so called experts) experts that this should not be a problem this time around or if it is a problem it would be very limited. As we start putting this new fuel into our vehicles we will find out how much of a problem it will really be since no one knows for sure.

Our products, Diesel Kleen and Diesel Fuel Supplement are not silver bullets, however they will help to prevent a lot of problems with the new fuels. The EMA (Engine Manufacturers Association) says that ULSD will cause many problems that can be overcome with the use of a good additive. For example the EMA says that you will need to use a detergent to keep carbon deposits from forming in the injectors caused by the new fuels. They also say that lubricity should be higher, that a fuel stability package should be used and that the Cetane Number should also be higher. Diesel Fuel Supplement and Diesel Kleen will help with these problems and will also lessen the problem of leaking seals. The EMA also says that microbial contamination will be greater.

You should use Diesel Kleen in the non-winter months and Diesel Fuel Supplement in the winter months.

If you have any other questions or concerns please let me know. By the way, I have 2 older tractors and a 1998 Dodge truck. It is not that I am concerned but the thought of having to pay to fix a problem if it arises makes me worry about these new fuels. I will also be keeping my fingers crossed that the experts are correct and only minor problems will arise with the use of the new fuels.

Best regards,

Brian Wilson

Technical Advisor

Compliance Coordinator

(800)643-9089

bwilson@powerservice.com

Power Service Products, Inc.

Quote:

Brian, as always, I appreciate you taking the time to offer detailed replies. I'd like to be able to share with the group assuming I have your permission to do so.

Can you expand upon this a bit (without revealing any trade secrets):

"Diesel Fuel Supplement and Diesel Kleen will help with these problems and will also lessen the problem of leaking seals."

I am certain the guys are going to want to know the specifics. Thanks.

Quote:

It is difficult to tell you in detail what we have done to our products to lessen the problems of leaking seals without giving you chemical information. We took steps over 2 years ago to come up with a product that would work with the new ULSD fuels that are now hitting the market. There are certain type chemicals that will dry seals or have no positive effect on seals. There are others that have a positive effect on seals. We have formulated our products to have positive effects on all of the bad effects of ULSD fuel and we were probably the first product on the market that meets the new ULSD requirements for diesel fuel additives. Having said that we know that there are some products on the market that are nothing but alcohol or mostly Butyl Cellosolve which would meet the ULSD mandates but are not by themselves much of a additive package and certainly not a complete additive as Diesel Fuel Supplement or Diesel Kleen.

The current wisdom on seals is that equipment that is 10 years or newer is not expected to have any major seal problems. Current seals last about 15 years without much trouble (some last longer than others and it is hard to say exactly why) so equipment that is 10 years old and less than 15 years old will start to see some seal leakage as seals age and lose elasticity. The older equipment 15 to 20 years ago relied on the fuel having aromatic content around 35% or higher and was based on high sulfur fuels. These seals had a lot of problems when we switched to Low Sulfur Fuels in 1993. If you have equipment (on road or off-road and it was manufactured in 1994 then you are getting close to the expected life of the seals and if you develop leaks it may be related more to the age of the seals rather than the new fuels. I had to replace my fuel pump on my 20 year old tractor two months ago. The seals around the pump and the pump itself finally gave up. If I was using ULSD I would have a tendency to suspect the fuel. Since I know that ULSD was never used in the tractor I think is was old age that did them in. This makes if difficult to really know what is wearing out due to age and what is failing due to the new fuels.

The EMA (Engine Manufacturers Association) which represents the interest of all diesel engine manufacturers put out a statement on the new ULSD fuels which I briefly outlined in my last response. Their outline on the new ULSD fuels makes it clear that if you want to keep your equipment running as intended you will have to use an additive. No additive on the market is a silver bullet that will cure all problems. Our additives are as close as you will come to that.

This is as about all I can say without getting into Trade Secrets or Chemical makeup. I am sorry that I could not be of more help with your question and I am sure that this will be somewhat of a disappointment.

Let me know if I can be of any other help.

Best regards,

Quote:

Brian, thanks. I accept your assurances that PowerService has made efforts to address this seal problem without knowing the specifics. I have to believe that at least a few of the additive manufacturers will have given it some consideration. It would be irresponsible otherwise.

Is it OK to share your comments and thoughts on this?

Quote:

It is not a problem for me if you want to share this info.

You may be surprised about the irresponsible additive manufacturers. Most of them were taken by surprise, did not know they had to put a mandated EPA label on their bottles saying that they were not compliant and most of their products are not compliant with the new ULSD requirements as of this writing. The only thing that surprised us is that EPA mandated the label on all bottles regardless of when it was made (this year or ten years ago).

Hope to hear from you later.

Brian

deltajetfixer · #7 10-06-2006, 10:13 AM

I use it at every fillup in the hope of fending off glowplug seizure problems.

Hatterasguy · #8 10-06-2006, 12:33 PM

I use it at every fill up. Silver bottle in summer for more cetane, white in the winter to prevent gelling.

Cars do seem to run a bit smoother with higher cetane, and Brian has noticed a very slight mpg gain.

rrgrassi · #9 10-06-2006, 12:39 PM

You can get the Pwoer Service Silver and White at Tractor Supply Corp store for $6.20 a qt. I use it to, now that we have the blue green stuff called ULSD.

MBgrinder · #10 10-06-2006, 02:25 PM

- Silver for Summer

_ white for Witner. ONE time, i did not it, i was out, and i could tell the difference. and never will go without again.

Johnt49 · #11 10-06-2006, 02:47 PM

Does anyone know if off road ("farm") diesel is switching to ulsd as well? Just curious if this may be a problem for off road equipment too.

H-townbenzoboy · #12 10-06-2006, 03:15 PM

I did a small experiment a few months ago where I recorded my fuel mileage with and without power service additive. I found that I acutally got slightly better fuel mileage with the additive. But I was not sure if that was due to the fact that I was not running the a/c as often and taking more highway trips during the period I was using the additive.

My findings:

http://mbca.cartama.net/showpost.php?p=80634&postcount=101

uberwgn · #13 10-06-2006, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnt49

Does anyone know if off road ("farm") diesel is switching to ulsd as well?

Not yet.

PatricdeBoer · #14 10-06-2006, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H-townbenzoboy

I did a small experiment a few months ago where I recorded my fuel mileage with and without power service additive. I found that I acutally got slightly better fuel mileage with the additive. But I was not sure if that was due to the fact that I was not running the a/c as often and taking more highway trips during the period I was using the additive.

My findings:

http://mbca.cartama.net/showpost.php?p=80634&postcount=101

I check my fuel milage every time I fill, up (I dunno why, it never changes more than a little bit) but I found that I consistantly got +2-3 mpg with diesel kleen.
Before walmart nearly doubled the price on diesel kleen

I was actually saving money by running that stuff.