Hey guys,can anyone teal me what are the symptom's when the motor is out of timing?and how do you adjust the timing on the diesel motors?

__________________
my hot rod
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiJ2YYIBxVs
one more
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79r9hn9aTuA
and one more
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dKo1E-69f0
Sorry for my broken English!
1984 300sd 301000 MILE

Long warm up time, low power, hard starting hard to keep idling, especially with AC on and excessive fuel consumption! Identify that your timing is off first and then look in shop forum timing set procedures. setting your injection pump timing is rather complicated! I would start with valve lash adjustments first since valves out of adjustment will also cause simillar problems to timing being off!

Like many others here I suspect, I am a diesel "Newbie" but I'm going to give my opinion anyhow!
It is my observation that these vintage '75-85 MBZ diesels can be out of time due to chain wear or otherwise a considerable amount before you will finally know it. When you have an engine that runs best at 24 Deg. BTDC, well that's a great deal more advance than any gas engine I ever heard of so that's a definite difference and as I see it this large amount of advance " in-and-of-itself " means that there is is greater latitude for things to get " out of wack/spec " before you are going to notice.
If we were to start comparing the %age of timing deviation from "spec" for both gas and diesel [deviation before you begin to notice what we might consider to be a problem] well I think we would see greater similarities between the two. Sorry about this abstract thinking.
To reinforce what I have tried to say above let me relate that while working with my new found "Indy MBZ mechanic" friend from Hungary, using easy-to-setup-and-use" electronic piezo-pulse sensor timing equipment I have observed quite a few MBZ diesels from 1975 to 1988 that were considerably out of time [up to 10 Degrees] and no one seemed the wiser! So this tells me that at least these older diesels have been running this way for a long time and will no doubt keep chugging along that way without being diagnosed as needing attention!
My goal remains to help my friend put together the means to quickly detect such "out-of-spec" timing situations and to adjust the IP in 1 to 1.5 hours total labor. So finally to your question...
I would suspect timing first on a car with a top-end speed problem that just does not seem to be solveable by any of the other normal things often done by mechanics attempting to solve this somewhat common problem for these cars. Don't ask me for any deep engineering explanationfor this for this is strictly based upon my own experience with my 240D which has a very young engine.
I estimate that the straight-and-level top-end for this MBZ improved ~8 to 10 mph when I changed the timing from 20 to 23.5 Deg. BTDC.
I rest my case... no let me change that to " my speculation ! ",
[U[/U]

I agree.

We looked at six vehicles at one of the GTG's with the pulse timing unit and they varied by nearly 8 degrees from the earliest to the latest. Nobody reported any starting problems or running issues.

I believe the engine will start and run perfectly fine even when its 10 degrees retarded.

Naturally, the fuel economy and the power won't be to spec and the engine will definitely benefit from the correct timing.

One of our members set IP timing on the opposite stroke (360 degrees late). The engine started immediately but developed no power. It smoked the entire neighborhood with massive clouds of white smoke. Starting them is not a problem.

I knew it... GREAT things would happen for me in 2007 and look at this... something that Brian and I FULLY agree on... I THINK!?
Consider yourself invited to our January 20th, 2007 Marin County GTG... my first as a MBZ "Newbie"!
Just funnin ya... Regards,

.........you've been here over one year now.........hardly a "newbie" by that measurement.........

... my sincere 2007 thanks Brian.
Yes, I can now get my "jollies" helping someone fix his car all the way on the other side of the world. That makes me a little high for I'm ex-military and ex-overseas contractor who has traveled to 26 countries. So it's great to now be able I do much the same without getting out of my chair.

Typing ~100wpm [still maybe!?] is my best skill in this regard,

Eight to ten degrees retarded injection timing might just might effect the lowest practical cold temperature starting point quite a bit. Might not either for all I know on these particular engines. Pretty critical on some other indirect injection engines in my limited experience. Even three to four degrees makes a large difference on them. Mercedes pre chamber design may have a buffering effect that is greater than other makes even though they use simular bosh injectors as well. Overall I agree with Sam and Brian though.

... lives up where it gets VERY COLD... brrrrrrr!
Barry - Do you think you will ever learn to express an opinion without immediately questioning it !!!? Happy New Year 2007 !
Regards,

Best for the year ahead Sam... Probably not.
Also best regards to you in the tropics. You are right of course. Diesel starting reliability is an issue with most older diesel engines in this climate. Although the direct injection engines are okay up here. I also enjoyed pulling Kevins tail the other day. I hope he has shown you what he has taken apart as well. He uses a good southern approach by burning candles and using black magic when underway. I will have to go on the bay and bid on a good voodoo book just to keep up.

When I adjusted my injection timing from approx. 15 degrees BTDC to 24 degrees, the most noticable improvement was in starting. Before the adjustment, it would take several revolutions is warm weather. I cooler weather, it would sometimes dies after start and/or require a couple of glow cycles. With timing to spec, the engine starts almost immediately.

I have no doubt that the engine will start faster if the timing is on spec or early. However, most folks with late timing won't think anything of a diesel that takes four or five seconds to start. They might consider this normal.

My comments on easily starting them with late timing are general remarks on the observations of others. In similar manner to a perfect set of valves that close precisely, IP timing that is on spec will provide an incremental benefit in starting capability.

The SD will start in less than 1 second at any temperature above 12F. It's got brand new valves and perfect IP timing.

How should the rank and file diesel owners be checking their timing? I saw one of the injection checkers on the snap on truck but it was a yes - no checker, not a timing checker.
Steve

Which vehicle?

Steve/Blodgit2 – Brian and I both have had a little experience with some of the new alternative technologies that offer a potential way to easily check the timing on these vintage MBZ diesels’ IP(s).
I even took a gamble and successfully E-bay bid on a $1,000 piezo-pulse device for under $200… but thus far I am not happy with the variability of the test results of the equipment which is used as a trigger for a standard inductive timing strobe light. Soon we will get back to this project.

Steve - So after your POST, I went to the Snap-On website to see if I could spot what you spoke of and I came up with their modern day version of the same piezo-pulse technology for ~$300. See:
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=56075&group_ID=1389&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

Snap-On also shows a timing indicator/gauge but it’s only for the newer Bosch IP on the VW & Audi diesels. See:http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=10657&group_ID=1325&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
By all means Steve, tell us more if what you think what you saw is NOT either of these!

I’m off tomorrow for Miami until Monday to attend a wedding !

Regards,