Now you’re putting a diesel in a SEC, that the factory would never have done. It will drive horribly.

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1979 240D- 316K miles - VGT Turbo, Intercooler, Stick Shift, Many Other Mods - Daily Driver

1982 300SD - 232K miles - Wife's Daily Driver

1986 560SL - Wife's red speed machine

Jimmy, GO BACK and reread the post from the first... you missed the point.

Having a NORMALLY Aspirated engine like yours WITH the manual trans is GREAT...

It is the rpm power curves of the TURBO engine mated to a manual trans which is not a great combination.

There are so many bogus concepts in your statement that I suspect you are young enough that you have never experienced a car which has had a racing cam installed in it.
You concentrated on the power when that has nothing to do with it. You can have a huge engine like an old Ford 428 and it be smooth as silk at idle.... and a Ford 427 with a short stroke and cam which would stumble or die off the line if you treated it the same way. It is the rpms at which the useable power band occurs which makes the difference...and the Exhaust Driven Turbo ( which is very different from even the gear or belt driven Supercharger ) moves the practical power band up considerably.... enough that thousands of shifts later you may be replacing your clutch more often than you really want to.
I have a 240 d and I do not need to slip the clutch at all....I just engage it in the normal fashion... because it has nothing to do with power and everthing to do with useable rpm range..... you have a lot of missconceptions you are carrying around with you.

Greg, you missed my point. I was being unbelievably funny.....

I knew what you were saying, and understand your point of view along with the theory behind it. But we also must heed the first hand driving experience of the folks that have done this switch.
As much as I love driving the 240 with the standard tranny, I much prefer my turbo wagon to have the automatic. With the turbo spooled and car accelerating, the auto tranny works really well, and there is no shift delay at all. Smooth consistent pulling.......

Guess I'll need to start re-evaluating the effectiveness of my attempts at humor.....

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Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John

My point exactly. Has Randy let you drive his wagon?

Once you have driven a turbo 617 with a manual tranny for a period of time, you will see how nice it can be. Test drives don't count, once you are used to the extra torque of a 617 it's nothing like a 240D.

I have done a few manual tranny swaps into turbo diesels, and there certainly is a downfall in performance. A manual tranny in a turbo diesel will not accelerate as fast as a properly tuned automatic car.

The only way to start off in a manual tranny car turbo car quickly is to rev the engine and dump the clutch (this gives you wheelspin off the line you won't see with an automatic). Unless you do this you will struggle through the low rpm range where these engines are practically useless, this problem is more apparent when taking off on an upgrade.

In normal driving I have not found these performance issues to be a problem. Most people that do these swaps do them on their only car, and don't do any timed runs to substantiate any percieved performance increase. This is understandable because most people aren't driving these diesels for performance, and if it feels faster to you, it may as well be.

I have done the swaps because of worn out automatics and there is a nice ecomony gain as a result of doing it especially with the 5 speed in my wagon. The wagon has done as high as 32 mpg on the interstate, which was much better than it ever did with the automatic (27-28 was the best then).

These engines love the overdrive, I have been suprised many times how well it pulls the mountains without downshifting at high speed. With the overdrive you are more able to take advantage of the torquey characteristics of the engine.

So in my opinion, it makes the cars more fun to drive and increases economy, the only drawback is a slight decrease in performance and low speed hill climbing is more difficult. Under 2000 RPM these engines are absolutely gutless, this is an RPM range that you will never need power out of the engine with an automatic because of the stall of the torque convertor.

The best performing 617 turbo car I have found is the '85 models. They have a higher stall on the torque convertor and a 2.88 rear axle, I am fairly certain my '85 300SD would out accelerate any stick conversion.

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1993 300D 2.5 Turbo (blue/ blue tex)
1991 350SDL (White/ Gray leather)
1983 300TD Turbo 5-speed manual (Green/ Beige)
1985 300SD (Black/ Black Leather)
1985 300TD (White/ Green Tex)
1980 300SD (Astral Silver/ Black Leather)
1990 560SEL (White/ Gray Leather)
1993 300SD (Black/ Black Leather)
1967 200D (Green/ Beige Tex)
1969 300SEL 6.3 (Moss Green Metallic/ Green Leather)
1975 300D (Astral Silver/ Green Tex)
2001 Ford Excursion Diesel

Patterson, Well Said.
Forcedinduction, on the ' heeding' ... the ' n ' in terms of that study is just too small to draw conclusions from subjective reports... and pay heed to Paterson's REASON for his change outs... to rid himself of the problem of keeping and fixing these often cranky MB automatic transmissions.... that is a perfectly understandable reason in my book... but does not take away the possibility that someone not motivated by that may be unhappy at the shortened clutch replacement interval compared to that of a non turbo engine... or not understand that Patterson's statement about a tuned auto turbo being faster from stoplight to stoplight is true... in other words... if the motivation is ' sport driving' then they may be disapointed in the switch to manual transmission.. if the reasons are different they may be thrilled.
I own a 240d because it has a manual transmission.

Well fella's I bought it. The engine started right up once i put the battery from my turbodiesel in it. It's got euro bumpers and manual windows and manual climate control. The clutch is real stiff. I can't even press it down to the floor It's got lots of rust, so I'll probably scrap the body once I've pillaged it for the parts i need to do the swap.

The shifter was in a box in the trunk. However, it is in pieces, so now I have to figure out how to assemble it properly. Anybody have an assembly drawing of the shifter?

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2001 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel - 4x4, auto, 3.54 gears, long bed
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'92 300D 2.5 Turbodiesel - sold
'83 300D Turbodiesel - 4 speed manual/2.88 diff - sold
'87 300D Turbodiesel - sold
'82 300D Turbodiesel - sold

never mind guys. I found an assembly drawing in my Haynes manual. Thanks for all the replies.

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2001 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel - 4x4, auto, 3.54 gears, long bed
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'92 300D 2.5 Turbodiesel - sold
'83 300D Turbodiesel - 4 speed manual/2.88 diff - sold
'87 300D Turbodiesel - sold
'82 300D Turbodiesel - sold

You lucky guy! That is a rare find at a good price. If the Euro bumpers are in good shape, you can probably get $500 just for them. Now you have a lot of hours ahead of you to do the swap. But I think the driveshaft will bolt right in because it is out of a 300D not a 240D. Do you plan on switching out the climate control too? If so, take lots of notes and photos when you are stripping it out of the parts car so you will know where everything will go when you are putting it in your good car.

All the conversation regarding a manual tranny in a turbodiesel is quite interesting. I understand Leathermang's points but early on in the post a Brit chimed in with the fact that many turbodiesels in Europe have manual trannies, just not the W123. It was never offered on either side of the pond. I just checked on eBay Germany to verify and I found a couple of E290TDs and a C250TD with turbos and manual trannies. But I am sure the trannies are set up specifically for those cars.

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Doug

1987 300TD x 3
2005 E320CDI

It's not a 5 speed is it? Does the car have euro lights?

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1979 240D- 316K miles - VGT Turbo, Intercooler, Stick Shift, Many Other Mods - Daily Driver

1982 300SD - 232K miles - Wife's Daily Driver

1986 560SL - Wife's red speed machine

You can just do what I did,and rip out the old pig,and put in a chevy 383 stroker motor,with T56 six speed,dual 2.5" exhausts,and dana 60possi rear from a Jag,ands be done with it.My '79 300CD,makes short work of a lot of cars,on the street,and strip.Very easy job,too.All you'll need from that parts car you're looking at is the pedals,and some small stuff.the rest is G.M.over the counter stuff.Lotta fun though...,just a thought.

now THAT will make the purists cringe!

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1979 240D- 316K miles - VGT Turbo, Intercooler, Stick Shift, Many Other Mods - Daily Driver

1982 300SD - 232K miles - Wife's Daily Driver

1986 560SL - Wife's red speed machine

Would you please post the item numbers for those that you found ?
I can not find them..

" It was never offered on either side of the pond"... that is the biggest clue as to the basis for my reasoning on the subject.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MERCEDES-BENZ-E250-E250-TD-E290-TD-E300-TD-MANUAL-95-00_Item number: 190067670001

note: the above is a paper manual for those cars... not an indication they have turbo diesel engines coupled to manual transmissions...

Volkswagon is making news at this time due to doing that...

Nobody has any comments on the C111?

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1979 240D- 316K miles - VGT Turbo, Intercooler, Stick Shift, Many Other Mods - Daily Driver

1982 300SD - 232K miles - Wife's Daily Driver

1986 560SL - Wife's red speed machine