my compresion is low and I can't get started. Anyone know how one would go about adding oil to the combustion chamber in order to increse compression and get this b!t(h...er...lovely lady started. It is low on the dip stick, but before I just go topping it up, is there a better way to get oil down into the combustion chamber, Glow Plug Holes? Intake valves? Oil filler?

That is really not a good idea ....
Better to make sure you battery is really charged up...
that all your connections are clean and tight...
and then glow for a timed one minute before hitting the starter button
and have someone else put a 3 second spray of aerosol starter spray into the intake...

Lots of theads... but several people will immediately post saying this will BLOW up your engine... ignore them.... and read the posts in the archives.. use JimSmith as the poster name in the advanced search to get the best answer...

Have you first confirmed you've got a functioning glow?

__________________
Terry Allison
N. Calif. & Boca Chica, Panama

09' E320 Bluetec 77k (USA)
09' Hyundai Santa Fe Diesel 48k (S.A.)

I would not go as far as to say Blow Up....but excessive use of "Starting Fluid" aka Ether.....will wash any lubricant from the cylinder walls, and not do your engine any good......

Let's face it folks.....most Americans think that if a little works....then a bunch more will be lots better.....this is most definitely not the case when dealing with any starting fluid....including WD-40.....a little goes a long way.....

Also out here in the rural areas.....farmers will tell you that their engines become "addicted" to starting fluids......this is partly true because other maintenance items tend to be ignored.....

I would personally only use starting fluids in an emergency....like if the barn is on fire....or if the water is rising and I need to move a vehicle NOW....

SB

__________________

Diesels:
'85 300D, "Max, Blue Benz", 155K, 27.0 MPG
'84 190D 2.2, "Eva, Brown Benz", 142K, 40.2 MPG
'77 240D (parts car)
'67 Eicher ES 202 Tractor "Otto" (2cyl, Air Cooled, 30HP)
Gassers:
'94 Ford F-150, "Henry", 170K (300 Six) 17.5 MPG
'85 190E 2.3, 148K....Parts Car
'58 Dodge W300M Powerwagon (Flat Fenders) Less than 10 MPG

I replaced my glow plugs 3 weeks ago, and I've tested the relays and all is good. I had this same issue a week ago and the garage I took it to "added oil to the combustion chamber" for $300! It worked very well for a week now I'm very far from home, about 800miles, and am having the sme issues. I'm pretty familiar with the car, swapped out the motor my self and do all routeen maintenance, so I don't think I should have to pay $300 again ot get it started! I can try the wd-40 thing, but I feel oil in the combustion chamber is mor likely what is really needed. it's sittin almost 2 quarts low right now, should I just top it up, or add some in another fashon? has anyone ever added oil to their combustion chamber before?

Yes, top it off before running it. Are the valves in proper adjustment?

You usually only do the oil trick after you do a compression test, if you find one or two cylinders to be low. This tests for the condition on the rings. If the compression rises, then rings are usually suspect. If no change from the low reading, valves, head gasket, or cracks in the head or cylinder can be the culprit.

__________________
RRGrassi


70's Southern Pacific #5608 Fairmont A-4 MOW car

13 VW JSW 2.0 TDI 193K, Tuned with DPF and EGR Delete.

99 W210 E300 Turbo Diesel, chipped, DPF/Converter Delete. Still needs EGR Delete, 232K

90 Dodge D250 5.9 Cummins/5 speed. 400K

Gone and still missed...1982 w123 300D, 1991 w124 300D

The valves were adjusted 3 weeks go as well. I'm pretty sure the rings are the issue. grrr. I need 'er to start - today!

3 Seconds of aerosol was specified.. that is not going to wash any fluid down because he is injecting VAPOR into the INTAKE spout... so it is also going through the air filter before going to the combustion chamber..

Farmers are simple people. They say that because they don't understand that it was only when the other factors like compression were getting marginal they had to START using starting fluid... and baring fixing the rings and valves correcting that situation they have to KEEP USING IT... thus the impression that their engines got ADDICTED...

"My name is John Deere and I'm addicted to ether"
"Call Massey Fergusson the next time you're tempted to take a shot of WD-40"

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

It's running! I toped off the oil and gave 'er a shot of wd-40. thanks for all you help. The next thing I'll likely be looking for is a 617 motor w/ an SLS pump on it that has good compresion, heh.
Thanks again for the pointers,
Roger

I don't usually take well to some yahoo who insults both my chosen profession and my main interest in the same comment!!!

First......The following is quoted directly from....

Diesel Engine Reference Book
Edited by LRC Lilly
Published by Butterworths
London, Boston, Durban, Singapore,
Sydney, Toronto, Wellington
in 1984

14.6.5 Special Starting Fuels

The starting aids described so far are all means of increasing the temperature of the air in the cylinder of a diesel engine at the end of the compression stroke, so that it will be satisfactorily above the self-ignition temperature of the diesel fuel employed, at the lowest ambient air temperature at which the engine will be required to operate. The alternative approach is to employ a fuel for cold starting the diesel engine, which has a self-ignition temperature below the temperature of the air in the cylinder at the end of the compression stroke, when starting a completely ‘cold’ engine at the minimum ambient air temperature at which it will be required to start.
The starting fuels employed are usually ether-based but because ether itself produces an undesirably high rate of pressure rise during combustion in the engine cylinder and has virtually no inherent lubricating properties, appropriate additives are included in the formulation of the fuel to protect the engine against the effects of these undesirable characteristics. This form of starting aid is now widely used and in it’s simplest form is an aerosol container marketed under such trade names Aerostart, Gasomatic, and Quickstart. Some fluid from the aerosol is sprayed into the air filter or air intake while the engine is being cranked. This is effective as a means of obtaining a means of a cold start under occasionally extreme conditions but, for general use a more precise control of the process is highly desirable.

.......this section goes on to explain sever automated means of controling the process......I inserted the bold print, not the publisher.....

Besides holding a USCG Chief Engineer Steam Unlimited Horsepower license....where I learned a while bunch about condensing vapors.....and those sprayed in "starting fluid vapors" will condense upon the cold surfaces of the cylinder walls......

I also hold a USCG Chief Engineer Motor Unlimited Horsepower license (please note that this also covers Gas Turbines).....where I learned a whole bunch about the design, operation, maintenance, and repair of all sizes of diesel engines.....I am not a MB Diesel Expert.....but a 50-150 hp high speed MB diesel would be covered.....

I have also been to Antarctica and Greenland aboard a Diesel Ship......so I think I have a bit of experience with cold weather, and diesel engines.....

I was also trained on Diesel Engines by a crew of German Diesel Engineers...and most of my Diesel engine experience is with German built equipment.....

From my personal experience, it is not a good idea to use starting fluids as a general usage starting aid.....excepting in emergencies.....

Aboard ship.....a can of starting fluid was sometimes kept in the Lifeboat Diesel toolbox.....and a can was generally kept in the Emergency Diesel Generator Room.....for use in Emergencies......

In my humble opinion, anyone who relies on Starting Fluids is lazy, and lax in their preventative maintenance program.....

Now sir, please state your credentials, if any!!!

SB

__________________

Diesels:
'85 300D, "Max, Blue Benz", 155K, 27.0 MPG
'84 190D 2.2, "Eva, Brown Benz", 142K, 40.2 MPG
'77 240D (parts car)
'67 Eicher ES 202 Tractor "Otto" (2cyl, Air Cooled, 30HP)
Gassers:
'94 Ford F-150, "Henry", 170K (300 Six) 17.5 MPG
'85 190E 2.3, 148K....Parts Car
'58 Dodge W300M Powerwagon (Flat Fenders) Less than 10 MPG

use WD-40 instead of ether if your going to.. and their is a proper way of doing it.

This is in a post about a 617 engine.. and my manuals stop at 1985 .... 123 models....

are yall talking about the same thing I am ?

My '82SD glowplug relay kicks off after about 30 or so seconds (617/126). I've timed it with a voltmeter attached to the leads. Also, if it's quiet enough around the car, I can hear the loud "thunk" when it shuts off.

Don't know if 123s are different.

__________________
1998 E300 +310,000K
1996 E300 +460,000K

Like most things on these cars there were several ' editions' .
The reason your description has the " or so" in it is because the glow plug light time is supposed to be influenced by the "temperature of the engine and ambient air " through a sensing circuit .

" When the glow system is switched on , each glow plug is subject to a current of approx 20 amps ( peak pluse of approx 40 amps).
Under the influence of increasing heat , the inherent resistance of the glow plug increases and will limit the current to approx 8 amps. "

" After a glow period of approx 20 seconds a heater pencil element temperature of 900 degree C / 1652 degrees F will be attained, after approx. 50 seconds the max temperature will be 1080 degrees C/ 1976 degrees F. "

Safety Shutoff
" If there is no start following indication of ready - to -start condition , the glow current is interrupted by the safety shutoff, after 90+20 seconds for model year 1978/79, after 50+10 seconds for model year 1980. "

Sometime around 1981 they took out the coolant temperature sensing and only have the ambient air sensor.... but in the description of the fault sensing indicator....as when one or more pencil heating elements fail .... it says :

"A fault in the preglow system is indicated by the preglow indicator lamp not lighting up when the key is actuated in position " 2".
In the event of unfavorable tolerances of the pencil element glow plugs or of the Reed relay (d), response of the fault indicator only after two pencil element glow plugs are defective is allowed"

".... If the balance of the magnetic fields is interrupted by the failure of one or several pencil element glow plugs, the Reed contact will close and the electronic unit (b) will be activated.

The preglow indicator lamp will switch off immediately and will therefore not light up when preglowing starts. "

That last sentence indicates that the light and the power to the glow plugs are not tied together. The glow plugs can be heating even though 1. the light ( by being off or flashing) is trying to indicate system maintenance is needed ( more than one glow plug has failed ) ...or the light is burned out.
This also makes sense in terms of default planning by the engineers... would they have a system which could cause the car to not start due to an ' advisory' light system being broken.. or would the logic flowchart give the last word to the vehicle operator and operation of the key ? Notice that when I quoted the time for glow plug continueing to heat up that I was using the lower more conservative time... the 50+10 seconds... when I said " up to a minute" ....