Poor Amsoil Report - TDI - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

tarbe · #1 02-19-2007, 10:20 PM

Factory recommended oil change interval is 10,000 miles. This car has a bypass filter installed and is using Amsoil HDD diesel oil...a very robust oil.

He ran the oil 20,868 miles, not 40k as stated on the report...that is a typo. The owner of the vehicle was actually told by his Amsoil dealer that he could run the oil 50K miles with the bypass. He decided to get an analysis done at 20K to play it safe. Good thing! This guy was eating his engine alive!

Understand that these VW TDI engines are much easier on oil than our Mercedes IDI engines. If Amsoil with a bypass filter could not go 20k in this TDI, do you really think any oil will safely go 20k (or more) in your Benz?

Don't try it without working your way up via analysis.

Tim

Dana B. · #2 02-19-2007, 10:39 PM

I assume this was something akin to a 5w-40 syn. Where is the soot rating?

#3 02-19-2007, 10:41 PM

I'm not even going to try for more than 8,000 miles on my oil. I will also change the bypass filter when it no longer gets warm with the engine, as has been suggested.

deerefanatic · #4 02-19-2007, 10:49 PM

Is it just me though that noticed that the report shows Amsoil 5w30 weight oil? That could be a problem right there if indeed he used that in his car, definitely not up to the task of a turbo diesel engine......... And if that too was a typo/mistake, I gotta wonder where this guy's head is.......

tarbe · #5 02-19-2007, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deerefanatic

And if that too was a typo/mistake, I gotta wonder where this guy's head is.......

Yea, I don't know if the lab messed that up or the guy who submitted the sample. But the oil was only in service a little over 20k.

Tim

rwthomas1 · #6 02-19-2007, 11:53 PM

I would have a few questions on this one:

How many times was the bypass filter and full flow filter changed during this time? Should have been done at least twice and the makeup oil should have maintained the additive package.

Why the heck would you do this without doing a few oil analyses along the way?

I saw a destructive test on an Amsoil bypass filter and it wasn't the best design. Gulf Coast, Oilguard, etc. may have had better results?

RT

dmtinker · #7 02-20-2007, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwthomas1

I would have a few questions on this one:

How many times was the bypass filter and full flow filter changed during this time? Should have been done at least twice and the makeup oil should have maintained the additive package.

Why the heck would you do this without doing a few oil analyses along the way?

I saw a destructive test on an Amsoil bypass filter and it wasn't the best design. Gulf Coast, Oilguard, etc. may have had better results?

RT

For those of us just getting to the big kids table, could someone explain what a bypass filter and full flow filter is?

Also, why would we have our oil tested? Is this recommended for everyone?

tarbe · #8 02-20-2007, 08:14 AM

The report was posted at bobistheoilguy.com. The poster said that the oil was only in service 20,xxx miles and that the mileage was a typo.

Bypass filters take a slipstream of oil from the system and run it through a very fine filter (50+% efficiency for one pass at 1 - 5 microns for instance). The entire stream cannot go through the filter at once, as the pressure drop would be so great you'd ruin your engine. Full flow filters generally filter to about 25 microns, give or take, and allow the full flow of the oil to pass through with an acceptable pressure drop.

I don't know why someone would be so foolish as to go twice the manufacturer's recommended interval without analysis. Perhaps he thought Amsoil or the bypass were magic? Perhaps he was taking his advice from someone who thought he had something to prove? Perhaps he thought $20 for an analysis was too much to spend when speculation is free?

I am glad common sense got a hold of him at 20,000 and not 30,000...or never!

Tim

tarbe · #9 02-20-2007, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmtinker

Also, why would we have our oil tested? Is this recommended for everyone?

I use oil analysis, not so much to extend intervals, but to perform a check-up on the vehicle. It is roughly analogous to getting blood work done when you have a physical. Especially if you pay a pro like Terry Dyson to analyze the results.

You can gain early detection of fuel delivery problems, head gasket problems, air filtration issues and check the oil to see if it is a good match to your engine and driving conditions.

Me personally, I recommend at least one analysis at some point (well after break-in) to determine a baseline, then one every couple years or 30-50,000 miles as a check (unless you have reason to think there is an issue). Many an engine has been saved an early death by a $20 oil analysis when that analysis came back with the dread hi Si (air filtration leak) or showing water/glycol/Na (coolant leak).

My $0.02

tarbe · #10 02-19-2007, 10:59 PM

The Amsoil HDD is a heavy 30 wt...around 12cSt at 100C, virgin.

Notice the viscosity in the report is 69SUS, or actually a borderline 40wt.

The soot shows up in the lower right as solids. In this case, a very good .5%, likely due to the bypass filtration and the fact that these TDIs are very fuel efficient and produce very little soot - especially with 15ppm S fuel.

Tim

sixto · #11 02-20-2007, 12:08 AM

What in that report describes the condition of the oil? Seems like the engine is disintegrating but I don't see the connection to quality or condition of oil.

Sixto
93 300SD 3.0

#12 02-20-2007, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

What in that report describes the condition of the oil? Seems like the engine is disintegrating but I don't see the connection to quality or condition of oil.

Where it says "very little active additive left".

sixto · #13 02-20-2007, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

Where it says "very little active additive left".

What does that mean? My car runs as well with "very little fuel left" as it does with a full tank.

I think I read that TBN = 2 is as low as you should go. Would be nice if the report indicated acceptable values of TBN. How high is TBN in fresh oil? Does synthetic have a higher TBN or does synthetic make TBN last longer, so to speak?

Also, what was the value of additional filtration in this case? Would the readings have been higher/worse running only the factory filter?

Sixto
93 300SD 3.0

#14 02-20-2007, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

What does that mean? My car runs as well with "very little fuel left" as it does with a full tank.

I think I read that TBN = 2 is as low as you should go. Would be nice if the report indicated acceptable values of TBN. How high is TBN in fresh oil? Does synthetic have a higher TBN or does synthetic make TBN last longer, so to speak?

This is Blackstone's explanation of TBN:

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/do_i_need_a_tbn_.html