here's the scoop. i got turned onto biodiesel about a year ago. since doing a lot of research on it, i've been on the search for a diesel the past few months. my 3 choices are 2003 Jetta Wagon TDI, 1987 300TD wagon, and 1995-98.5 Dodge Ram 2500 cummins. I've recently found a 300TD with 123k miles on it, and have a few questions.

I'm not exactly a car guy. I know a few things here and there but I've grown up mostly not doing much work to any of my cars. My family has owned a GM/Chrysler dealership, so I've had the luxury of getting fairly new cars at a very cheap price and having the dealership do the maintenaince at a cheap price. This leads me to believe that a 20 year old vehicle isn't the best choice as my daily driver, however...i'm in love with the Merc!

My question is, how much issues can I expect on a regular basis? Are these issues usually easy enough to remedy on my own? Part of the reason of going to a Merc or VW is to break away from the GM/Chrysler chain i've been fed on for so far. I'd like to become more self-sufficient in my care of my car, so I'm willing to learn. I just don't want to buy a car that I'm going to get bombarded with issues and not be able to keep up on my own. Any advice here is highly welcome..

oo a W124 wagon.. snap it up..sorry... I just think thats a cool thing.

the W124 used the 60x series diesel engine which had the aluminum head so make sure it has never overheated before

the 6 cylinder diesel is a smooth beast and will power you with no issues if you run clean bio/heated veg

If you're not exactly a car guy, I'd go for the TDI. Practically maintenance-free (I own a TDI and a 87 300TD).

Do not get an 87 300D/TD unless you are prepared to do your own maintenance or pay lots of money to a shop to fix it for you. In the first 3 months of owning my 300TD I spent about $3k on major repairs (transmission, radiator, climate control, power seat).

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-justin

1987 300TD, 1987 300TD
2008 R32, 2000 Passat Wagon

An 87 TD wagon is considered the cat's meow, partly because it is pretty rare. Any 20 year old car is going to have some issues to work through though, and some of them can be $$$$$.

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Palangi

2004 C240 Wagon 203.261 Baby Benz
2008 ML320 CDI Highway Cruiser
2006 Toyota Prius, Saving the Planet @ 48 mpg
2000 F-150, Destroying the Planet @ 20 mpg



TRUMP .......... WHITEHOUSE
HILLARY .........JAILHOUSE
BERNIE .......... NUTHOUSE
0BAMA .......... OUTHOUSE

Since you are very early on in your Mercedes information gathering, you need to know something very important:
Merc = Mercury

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Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John

Heck, even my eight-year-old E300 gives me issues constantly.
It must be a Benz thing....
My TDI will be arriving soon, so we'll see how my first month of ownership goes.....I remember the first month I had the E300 I spent $1k on a job I now realize I could have done myself!
My Excursion, on the other hand...I've never had a single problem with that beast.

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99 E300 TD -- sold
01 540i 6 spd

the problem i've found with the TDI is that they are extremely hard to come by at a reasonable price. people are gouging the price because the market is allowing it. i'd rather pay under 10k for a mercedes than 17k for a TDI. even if i do have to put some money/work into it. however, i don't want to be dropping 1k+ a year keeping it running.

guys, you make it sound like MB's are the worst cars. for some reason, they have a reputation of not just longevity but also low maintenance, the diesels that is. i can't be objective about this anymore. i'm just not happy in any car that does not clatter like a mercedes diesel. (and the tdi's don't sound the same, nor do the new CDI's). and when it clatters like that under the bonnet, especially if it clatters smooth and even and just loud enough, i don't care/ can't think whether this obsession really costs me more or less like an average japanese gasser. being able to drive on free WVO helps me fool myself that they are much cheaper for me.
the thing is: if you buy the 87 300TD, it's going to become your obsession, almost certainly. it's a beast. and you'll want to learn a lot about that car, and you'll be able to do a lot of stuff yourself. it's much easier to work on them then most other cars.

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1974 240D, 125K mi, B100 now, SOLD
1980 300TD, 115K mi, 4-speed stick, roll-up windows, greasecar with two tank conversion (daily driver)
1985 300D, 220K miles, greasecar with two tank conversion, SOLD
1993 300D 2.5turbo, 158K miles, green/tan, B20-B50

good point. like i said, i have a very strong interest in getting into this and learning. i'm certainly not looking to become a well versed MB mechanic or anything, but i just want to know if it's easy enough for a normal driver to be able to maintain this type of vehicle @ 20 years old and not get in over one's head..

It depends. If you don't have access a good mechanic, I would advise against the MB. Any older car no matter how well kept is going to have issues from time to time -- noises, shakes, electrical glitches, etc. A good mechanic will tell you what's happening and whether or not you need to fix it right away. A not-so-good mechanic will happily fix it for you every time you bring it in -- and may even find more stuff you didn't even know about. And of course that adds up quickly.

Doing it yourself is always an option, but after fluid changes and maybe changing glow plugs the work can get pretty technical. Of course, you can get help here, but keep in mind that for bigger jobs you may need to live without your car for a day or two while awaiting parts or further instructions.

So if you know of or think you can find a really good MB mechanic in your area, I'd say go for it. Otherwise, I think you might be happier in the the long run with a newer VW.

My E300 is my obsession. I love its performance, excellent build quality, and yes, that diesel clatter . I love its cold starts on only five cylinders (one bad GP, stuck, long story..), and I love having to coax it to full, smooth life every morning. I agree, I could not live without it: it is that "Mercedes-ness" that keeps me fixing all its issues in an effort to keep it running. Mercedes aren't "the worst cars," they simply require a bit of maintenance. Financially they aren't that great of an investment, but for the "soul"...I could think of none better.

Brothabran, if you are going to buy that 300TD, either invest in some shop manuals or be prepared to invest in a good mechanic. I would recommend Mercedes-WIS for its ease-of-use but I don't think it covers as far back as '87.

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99 E300 TD -- sold
01 540i 6 spd

Perhaps Mercedes, especially the older ones, are the best possible daily driven car a true DIY'er can ever own. Otherwise they may drain all your funds if you have a swindler of a tech or take the car to a new car dealership.
If you wish to acquire an older MB, make sure you know what you're getting into.

If you can't be hassled with DIY, I pray the mechanic you choose is honest and doesn't charge you for sloppy work such as bolts left loose, trans cooler hoses ready to slide off the radiator, fan clutches without fan blades, door panels with sockets left inside the door frame, etc.
Around here, that's the norm.

You don't have to take it to a Mercedes mechanic all the time. I took my gas Mercedes to a Goodyear to be worked on, my diesel to an auto cool place, for brakes to a general mechanic (turns out I would have been better off taking it to a specialist that time, due to an intermittent brake problem that he wrongly diagnosed, cost me about $400 and the problem still exists. From members on this site, I think I've zero'd in on the problem, a $40 part).

I think once you can get the Mercedes up to where it should be as far as maintenence and stuff, then you should be ok. Obviously, when you get to higher miles, things will have to be repaired or replaced like on all cars. For example, the transmissions are supposed to last til about 225-250k, then they have to be rebuilt.

Aside from major repairs, on my diesel, the repairs aren't that bad looking back on them, but going in when you don't know what to do, it sort of sucks. For example, look at 2 DIY posts. The one is at the top is mine, the one underneath from someone else. I saw his DIY before the repair, but it seemed to be too much work, and for me, not explained as well as I would have liked (talking about something AFTER you've done the repair, sure, DIY's seems logical, but prior to doing them, many instructions seems confusing). View this....

http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/W124ShiftBushings

So, bottom line, it sucks when something needs done. After you "master" that repair, you think, that wasn't so bad.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Jeff 1991 300d, 102k

If you're comparing a 20-year-old TD to a much younger TDi, you'll likely find that the younger car is going to have less problems. Not always though, our last new Jetta was the worst car we've ever owned. Depends a lot on the maintenance/condition of each car also when you're buying used, and luck.
The two cars are completely different though. The Mercedes TD is quiet, rides smooth for a long haul, lots of room, can carry 1/2ton in its cavernous interior, and is built for the long-haul. Parts aren't too bad for most things. Many used parts are available for the T124. however the 603 engine parts are a little less common used as so many of the diesels are still on the road.
The TDI Jetta/Golf is a commuter; small, rough-riding, and loud inside. It compares well to smaller Korean cars, but not to the 300TD/T124. Lots of people are happy with Jetta/Golf cars, they suit many people's needs and are more economical to drive, it depends on what you need in a vehicle. We drove VW happily for years until the quality started to fall, then moved into luxury vehicles.
The Dodge Ram Cummins is loud, obnoxious, and large. It will haul more than both of the other contenders put together, can haul 3/4ton and pull a large trailer, put a cap on it and its cargo is protected from the elements and somewhat from theft like a wagon. Again it's a complete departure from the other vehicles; larger, louder and much more fuel cost. You could tow the TDi with the 300TD and get better mileage than the Ram.
Most of all I'd start with what you really need in a vehicle. Do you need a small-efficient commuter = VW, or a mid-size classic luxury people/cargo hauler = 300TD, or a small truck to haul with = Dodge Ram.
I've got everything from small VWs to a 454 Suburban around here, each has its own purpose.

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Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

Folks,

All good points here. One point of view is overall cost. A 20 year old wagon will depreciate very little over the next 5 years. A newer TDI probably will. So you spend $1-2K on maintenance a year. The VW will drop that just in depreciation in 6 months. The Dodge will probably hold up ok as well.

Mileage... the VW will win by far. But running Bio / WVO it sounds as if fuel costs may not be your biggest concern.

Hassle factor... the MB will need some attention. Some of us enjoy that, some just want to drive a car. Think of your priorities and time availability.

Chuck