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  #1  
Old 03-11-2007, 11:03 PM
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116 chasis 617.950 engine into a 123 or 126?

Anyone have any experience/advice putting a 617.950 from an '80 300SD into an '83 300D or a '82 126 chasis? I have the two cars that need an engine and have found an '80 300SD with a rusted 116 chasis for $400. So bad I think two of the jack points would collapse if the car had to be jacked up! Couldn't drive it because the hood wouldn't latch with the flat post battery angled in there with the cables fastened with vicegrips! However, it started right up at 70F outside and idled smoothly. Said the turbo was 'out' on it and had no power. With the rusted body, broken side window and non functioning tach, this is a parts car IMO. Has 245k miles.
What kinda' bucket of worms would I be opening trying to swap this engine and trans into one of my two donor cars? According to my Chilton repair and tuneup guide the 617.950 engine in this car has a 6.8 qt crankcase capacity whereas the 617.951/952 engines are 8 qt. Visually, I noticed the intake is different because there is not egr apparatus. Any idea if motor mounts and other items are different? Chilton also showed the 617.950 used the same auto trans as the 240D , the W4B O25 whereas the 951/952 used the W4A 040. I didn't have time to look at how the trans is controlled so that's a question mark. Drive shaft lenght is something to think about also.

Any advice would be appreciated.

mike

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Diesel Discussion. Where learning is FUN!

1983 300D 296k work in progress
1985 300D (sandwiched) parts
1980 240D engine issue
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  #2  
Old 03-11-2007, 11:13 PM
ForcedInduction
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It also has about 10hp less due to a different camshaft profile.
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  #3  
Old 03-12-2007, 10:27 AM
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I do not believe you will have any problem doing the transplant. You will have to transfer the engine, tranny and differential. You should use the drive shaft from the w123. From what i see the bolt pattern for motor mounts is the same so again you would use the w123 motor mounts. The interesting thing may be the transplant of the accesories (alternator, compressor, PS, cruise, and ACC...).

I have the intention to do the same than you... W116 are actually plentyful for very cheap... drop that OM617.950 into a 123.123and you get a great 300D with manual AC!!!!
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1979 300SD Black/Black MBtex239000mi
1983 300TD euro-NA. White/Olive Cloth-MBtex 201000mi. Fleet car of the USA embassy in Morocco
1983 240D Labrador Blue/Blue MBtex 161000mi
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  #4  
Old 03-12-2007, 01:45 PM
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I can't help you much with most of the details you've asked about, but I do know the upper oil pans are different. You shouldn't have any problems using that engine elsewhere, but if you try to put a .951 or .952 into a W116 the upper oil pan will hit the front subframe. The later engines have more support braces near the transmission.

Did just remember that the SDs don't have an oil separator (or a drain location for one). If you use the air filter housing,etc off of the SD you'll be fine. I think that the drain location is in the upper oil pan (really iffy on that though).

I'm pretty sure the 80 SD's have the newer camshaft, so you should be good in that dept.

G'luck with it!
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  #5  
Old 03-12-2007, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tymbrymi View Post
Did just remember that the SDs don't have an oil separator (or a drain location for one). If you use the air filter housing,etc off of the SD you'll be fine. I think that the drain location is in the upper oil pan (really iffy on that though).

I'm pretty sure the 80 SD's have the newer camshaft, so you should be good in that dept.

G'luck with it!
My '80 617.950 has a drain for an oil seperator.

I believe you are correct about the cam in the '80 engine.
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  #6  
Old 03-12-2007, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rashakor View Post
You will have to transfer the engine, tranny and differential. You should use the drive shaft from the w123. From what i see the bolt pattern for motor mounts is the same so again you would use the w123 motor mounts. The interesting thing may be the transplant of the accesories (alternator, compressor, PS, cruise, and ACC...).
You should be able to reuse the existing tranny and differential. I know there was some changes in the auto trannys, but they all should bolt up if you use the rear engine plate from the dead engine. You will need to use the motor mount arms for which ever chassis you are putting the engine in. I know for a fact that the W116 arms are different from the W123 arms so I suspect that the W126 arms are different too. If you reuse the brackets for the accessories they should all bolt up. My 617.950 has a 616 alternator, PS pump, belt system and fan on it.
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1979 240D- 316K miles - VGT Turbo, Intercooler, Stick Shift, Many Other Mods - Daily Driver

1982 300SD - 232K miles - Wife's Daily Driver

1986 560SL - Wife's red speed machine
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  #7  
Old 03-12-2007, 01:54 PM
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Hmm, 10hp less. I didn't know that Forcedinduction.

Rashakor, this is the first 116 I've found around here, but 'here' is rural and definately 'redneck'. I know, I are one. From memory the accessories seemed to be in the same locations. I really need to look this car over closer and bring a battery so I can try to road test it. The owners statement that the 'turbo is out' is too vague for me to feel comfortable putting $400 into. I want to know more.

I appreciate everyone's input. Additional input is appreciated!

mike
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Diesel Discussion. Where learning is FUN!

1983 300D 296k work in progress
1985 300D (sandwiched) parts
1980 240D engine issue
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  #8  
Old 03-12-2007, 02:35 PM
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turbo is out... I bet its just a clogged alda line, Pull off the U tube, and check the turbo for play.
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1984 Euro 300SDC, (4spd standard)
1986 Toyota Landcruiser Diesel HJ60 5spd X2

Gone but not forgotten (some sold, some stripped)
1983 300 SD, 1985 300 SD, 1983 240D, 1986 300 SDL, 1985 300 SDL, 1983 300 D, 1984 300 D, 1985 300SD, 1987 300 SDL, 1983 300 SD, 1985 300 TD Euro, 1983 380SEC, 1990 300 D, 1987 300D, 1982 300D, 1982 300D, 1994 E420, 1987 300 TD, 1987 300 D, 1984 300 D
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  #9  
Old 03-12-2007, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmike View Post
Hmm, 10hp less. I didn't know that Forcedinduction.
See posts #4 and #5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmike View Post
The owners statement that the 'turbo is out' is too vague for me to feel comfortable putting $400 into. I want to know more.
Understandable! Keep in mind that *typically* the turbos don't go bad on these cars. Also, typically, they don't have bad injections pumps (my personal IP history is horrible, but I seem to be one of the few).

Also, you can disconnect the battery once the car is running... that way you could take it for a test drive to get some more engine data.

If you don't want it, where in AL is it? I'm about 1.5 hours from Tuscaloosa... I think I might have some rod knock/piston slap action (my car has the exact tapping as yours Forced), and need to find a backup engine sometime soon.
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  #10  
Old 03-12-2007, 10:41 PM
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Wow, good information folks!

Icefire, a clogged alda line was my first thought when he stated the turbo was out.

bgkast, I remember looking at the engine last week and I wondered if the engine mount arms would need to be swapped and if that would be a boltup. Thanks for the confirmation.

Tymbrymi, so that's why the sump capacity is different, different oil pans for clearance! Didn't occur to me to start the engine and then remove the battery. I'll try to remember that for emergency use. I'll take a battery if it's still available. John, the car is actually in Georgia! I'll try to arrange another look this weekend if possible.

This car also has poor vacuum. The tach amp is missing! Water HAS been in the trunk several inches deep (stains) but was merely damp when I looked. This is strickly a parts car. If the engine/trans checks out is $400 reasonable?

Ya'll sure are a big help!

mike
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Diesel Discussion. Where learning is FUN!

1983 300D 296k work in progress
1985 300D (sandwiched) parts
1980 240D engine issue
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  #11  
Old 03-12-2007, 11:04 PM
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Heck yes. I paid $700 for my 617.950 engine.
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1979 240D- 316K miles - VGT Turbo, Intercooler, Stick Shift, Many Other Mods - Daily Driver

1982 300SD - 232K miles - Wife's Daily Driver

1986 560SL - Wife's red speed machine
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  #12  
Old 03-13-2007, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmike View Post
so that's why the sump capacity is different, different oil pans for clearance!
I re-read your first post and found that 6.8qt number odd... I actually grabbed my owners manual and checked that it has 7.9qt capacity. Guess Chilton had a typo? FWIW, I put two full jugs of Delvac 1300 Super in it every time I change the oil, and it ends up just barely above full.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmike View Post
John, the car is actually in Georgia! I'll try to arrange another look this weekend if possible.
Oh well... was worth a shot! RE your is it worth $400... I would buy it. Including the gas money @15mpg I'd have to give a friend for gas in his truck. If it was in AL anyway...

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmike View Post
This car also has poor vacuum.
At some point in time they changed vacuum pump styles (I have no idea when, besides that my 79 has the old one)... the older one has an 'exhaust' line that goes into the intake tubing. Supposedly if the diaphragm goes bad it can pump oil into the intake. Not something that would necessarily kill the engine, but something to check. I think the rebuild kit for mine (which didn't fail that way) was $50 or less.
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  #13  
Old 03-13-2007, 09:09 AM
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Yes John, I too thought the Chilton 6.8 qt figure rather odd but that's all I had found. I'd take your owners manuel and especially your personal experience with adding two gallons of oil to your engine over whatever was in the Chilton book!

If memory serves I think it had the later type vacuum pump, but don't hold your breath!

John, I just noticed you have three times more early model SD's in your stable than I've ever seen personally! I actually like the body style. Too bad this one is so rusty.

John and bgkast, I appreciate your opinion on the price. I like to bounce things off folks to ensure my head is on straight.

I'll try to arrange a closer look for this weekend.

mike

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Diesel Discussion. Where learning is FUN!

1983 300D 296k work in progress
1985 300D (sandwiched) parts
1980 240D engine issue
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