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  #1  
Old 09-08-2007, 11:56 PM
Goodentight
 
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Coolant Flow Path '82 300TDT

Does anyone know the flow path of the coolant in the engine and most specifically the waterpump connections? I am in the process of retrofitting a VNT turbo that has a water-cooled center cartridge and want to do a hose routing that makes sense. TIA.

Andrew

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  #2  
Old 09-09-2007, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libbybapa View Post
Does anyone know the flow path of the coolant in the engine and most specifically the waterpump connections? I am in the process of retrofitting a VNT turbo that has a water-cooled center cartridge and want to do a hose routing that makes sense. TIA.

Andrew
The water pump forces "cool" water into the block. It returns "hot" via the head. From the head it can go one of two places:

1) Down the bypass hose which is straight out the bottom of the thermostat housing and back to the water pump.

2) Off to the radiator.

The thermostat determines which direction it goes. The thermostat starts off "closed" and all the hot coolant is sent down the bypass to the water pump.

When the thermostat begins to open, it simultaneously begins to close the bypass. Opening the thermostat allows the coolant to return from the radiator. With the bypass beginning to close, the coolant must head off to the top of the radiator.

Once the engine reaches 94C., the bypass is fully closed to the hot coolant exiting the head and the return from the radiator is fully open. All coolant from the head goes to the radiator and none of it goes down the bypass. All the coolant that returns from the radiator will then head down the bypass to the water pump.
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  #3  
Old 09-09-2007, 04:53 PM
Goodentight
 
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So I gather that the pressure side of the pump only goes directly into the block. That kinda stinks. Hmmm, any recommends on plumbing in a water-cooled turbo?

Andrew
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  #4  
Old 09-09-2007, 05:11 PM
ForcedInduction
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Here is the flow path.

Which turbo are you using?
Attached Thumbnails
Coolant Flow Path '82 300TDT-coolant-flow-diagram1.jpg  
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  #5  
Old 09-09-2007, 09:10 PM
Goodentight
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
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GT2556V from an Opel 3.0L TD.

Thanks for the flow paths. For lack of a simpler path, I guess I will tie into the heater circuit (always flows). I'd prefer the cooler coolant, but I don't think I'll tap a fitting into the block. Anyway, once N.O.T. is reached, the oil should always be hotter than the coolant leaving the engine, so I guess it won't hurt. I don't really care for dumping extra heat back into the water-pump, tho. Hmmm.

Andrew
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  #6  
Old 09-09-2007, 10:30 PM
ForcedInduction
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The heater circuit has a valve that stops flow when the heater is off.

Here is your thread in the VW GTD forum for those that might want to see what you are doing. (Didn't you mean GT2559V? Only BMW used the 2556.)
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=10365
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  #7  
Old 09-09-2007, 10:56 PM
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There is a block drain connection on the exhaust side of the block. You might consider taking a line from that point (on a 240D it is just ahead of the starter bracket as I recall) and going back in to the thermostat housing somewhere where on the suction side of the pump, but on the impeller side of the thermostat proper. Jim
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Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #8  
Old 09-09-2007, 11:43 PM
Goodentight
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
The heater circuit has a valve that stops flow when the heater is off.

Here is your thread in the VW GTD forum for those that might want to see what you are doing. (Didn't you mean GT2559V? Only BMW used the 2556.)
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=10365
Yup, I meant GT2559V. I would take from the heater circuit prior to either valve, and return after both. I like the block idea that was just mentioned, tho. I'll investigate some more.

Andrew
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  #9  
Old 09-10-2007, 03:12 AM
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Check out post 21 for my plan for plumbing a Water cooled turbo:

http://schumanautomotive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4580
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  #10  
Old 09-10-2007, 11:21 AM
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I really appreciate the post. Very good info.

Andrew
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  #11  
Old 01-17-2008, 12:20 AM
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With regard to this project, I'm nearing completion. I still need to plumb in the water-cooling portion of the turbocharger. The two basic suggestions have been to take coolant from either the heater circuit or expansion tank circuit and return it into heater return. Taking coolant from the expansion tank would always be cold coolant and so would extend warmup times as opposed to the heater circuit. With the heater circuit I would be running hot coolant through the turbo and returning it to the engine uncooled. To me that's uncool (pardon the pun). Sooo, that brings me to asking a coupla questions. On the top of the thermostat housing it seems that there is a temperature sensor and also just a simple bolt head. What's going on with the bolt head? Could I plumb the return in there instead? If I could, then it would seem that I would be returning the hot coolant pre-thermostat and so it would be added to the mix and either be cooled by the radiator if the thermostat was open or add to the warm-up time by running back down the bypass. Sounds good to me. The other question then becomes where to draw coolant from. What is the small metal line that runs from the waterpump up to the head? Is it under waterpump pressure? Also, under the exhaust manifold there appears to be a large allen head plug. I assume that is the plug that JimSmith referred to. Can that plug merely be tapped for NPT in the center of the plug? If so, then I believe that would be the easiest route. I assume the plug merely unscrews from the block. Thoughts and ideas are welcome.

Andrew
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  #12  
Old 01-17-2008, 03:19 PM
Goodentight
 
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Noone has any thoughts. Well, I guess I'm the smartest one in the group.

Andrew
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  #13  
Old 01-17-2008, 09:03 PM
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That may not amount to much....but, the only caution I would have about mutilating the existing threaded plug is, you have no other really effective "port" for draining and blowing down the coolant system, so, don't make the threaded plug impossible to remove in the process. I would be inclined to just have a special part made with as large a hole in the center as I could fit so the intended flow rate of coolant is not choked off there. You can put an orifice in the line going back to the thermostat housing to throttle the flow if you get too much flow. Not enough and it costs you a turbo. Jim
__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #14  
Old 01-17-2008, 09:25 PM
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how are you going to control the vnt turbo??
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  #15  
Old 01-17-2008, 09:39 PM
Goodentight
 
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Posts: 218
The I.D. of the holes into the turbo is 5/16" and so I'm sure that will be the smallest diameter in the entire turbo coolant circuit. Also, the turbo is pressure oiled as well and so I doubt even without any coolant flow that the turbo would be destroyed. It might wear out faster, tho, and so I'd like to plumb it in the best way possible.

The turbo conversion and intercooler addition is all being documented in the thread that Forced Induction previously linked to. In that thread are detailed descriptions of the vane control system I will be using and a link to a thread for a VW in which I installed a similarly controlled VNT. Here is another link for convenience:

http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=10365

Andrew

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