Cheap oil cooler hose replacement.
 

Cheap oil cooler hose replacement.
I ground off the crimped collars off of the oil cooler hoses on my 84 300D with a dermel tool and replaced only the rubber hoses. I cleaned and degreased the hose barbs with brake cleaner, applied silicone sealant to the barbs, slide the hoses on and double clamped them in place.
If someone is interested they can see 6 pics I took at this free pic host site: http://s242.photobucket.com/albums/ff279/Diesel911/
For some reason picture #1 is starts at the bottom.
If someone is interested in a more detailed description let me know.

Hmm, if the hose is high quality that may be a long-lasting replacement you've got there. Hopefully when dremeling off the old crimp ends you made extra extra sure no metal powder/filings got inside the tube....

I had trouble finding suitable hose that fit. I used GoodYear Insta-Grip Hose rated at 300 psi. There is a guy on EBay that sells aftemarket oil coolers (for 4 wheelers and such) who sells the same hose for use on oil coolers.
I worried about stuff getting into the hose also. After I ground the groove in the collars and pried them off I left the old hose on and sprayed it with brake cleaner and bristle brushed it until it was clean before I pulled off the hose. This way All the metal particles should have been gone. I did not write a complete step-by-step as I was not sure if anyone would also be interedted in trying it.
I think even if some small particles got inside I feel that the oil goes back to the oil pan and that they would drop to the bottom of the pan. I also think what I did has about the same risk as getting dirt into the system when you are replacing the entire hose assemblies.
Best wishes.

Just keep an eye on it, hoses don't just blow they give warning. I did that to my SD and AFAIK its still doing fine over a year later.

I oiled up the hose and pushed it past the lip on the hard line, and put a clamp behind the lip, then another on the barb. NFW that's coming off.

That looks like an interesting fix, but I simply could never drive my car and be comfortable and confident that that would hold. It would simply cause me too much angst........ :uhoh2:

Any time the hood is open is a good time to be observent.
The hose I used is rated at 300 psi so it is a long way from bursting. Before I put the hose on I degreased the tubing hose barbs with brake cleaner after which I coated them with silicone sealent. I also double clamped each hose end as you did. I am not expecting any leaks for a long time.
Besides saving money when I read some of the threads on changing the oil cooler hase assemblies. Many people reported damage to their oil coolers trying to unscrew the hose from it (when I removed one end of the hose to measure the hose barbs I found that 3 of 6 threads had been stripped). Also there is the complication (84 300D) of taking apart the engine mounts to get the old hoses out and the new ones in. It just seemed easier and safer to only replace the rubber hose. I did the job without moveing the power steering pump out of the way and it was not too much trouble with the tools that I had. Later when I removed my vaccum pump and moved the powersteering pump out of the way I realized that this would be the way to go if I ever did it again as there was a lot of room to grind off the crimped collars with the pump moved out of the way.
Best wishes.

Think of it this way.
 

Think off it this way. It is pretty much the same process as if you were adding an accessory engine or transmission oil cooler to your car or truck that did not come with an oil cooler. Most of the oil cooler kits that I have seen just have regular hose clamps to attach them to the connectors. There must be thousands of them out there doing their job with no problems.

Diesel911, Probably true,, but mine blew off on me. Granted it was not double clamped and I didn't do it, but no thanks. The hoses weren't that expensive.

If you really can't afford $100 (for the two lines) to spare for the longevity of your motor, maybe you should drive something else. No way I'd let that be under my hood.

I agree that it probably will hold up, but I also would be too paranoid. I replaced mine with two shiny assemblies from the dealer parts counter. Cost? $221 :D Oh, and I needed a new oil cooler too: $307

I'd be a little concerned about silicon sealant getting inside the hose and blocking an oil passage somewhere. I know of a helicopter crash with multiple deaths caused by the engine rebuilder inadvertently getting sealer in an oil gallery which caused the engine to seize.

You got ripped off. I just bought the two hoses and ordered an oil cooler from the local dealer for a total of $221.00. It was for the 1983 240D. The cooler is apparently "odd" in that both connections are at the bottom of the cooler. I thought that was normal, as I don't recall ever seeing them in any other arrangement. Jim

The 617 oil cooler retails new at the dealer for over $500, I found mine on ebay for $307 shipped. So it was a good deal....

When I go pick up my cooler I will ask about the 617 version. I thought the oil cooler and radiator, and other bolt on stuff was about the same. Never owned a 617 though so that was just a guess from peering in under the hood from a distance. Jim

Why buy new when you can go to a hydraulic shop and have the hose replaced, but retain your fittings?

I know this will not work if they are stripped out though.

How you do something is extremely important. I put the silicone on the hose barb (tubing) about 1/2 inch away from the hole in the tubing. When you push the hose on it pushes the silicone away from the hole in the tubing.
I have seen failures also: Where I used to work a person used silicone on an oil pump gasket and plugged up one of th outlet holes that went to the cam shaft resulting in a ruined cam and bearings.
In a similar situation a man made cut his own gasket for an oil pump and forgot to punch one of the outlet holes and also ruined bearings.
A mechanic shoved a rag into the oil line (this is on a engine inside of a minesweeper with a separate engine oil tank). The crew on the next shift came behind him hooked up the oil line with the rag inside. The rag stoped at the oil pump!
All of the people concerned were experienced mechanics who were not paying attention.
I have made my share of mistakes too but have manage to avoid the ones that caused damage to someones engine.

hold on. how much pressure is the oil in the cooler under? isn't it just the oil that goes into the pan? if so, there is no real pressure there. if it's in the circuit after the filter, but before the passages in the motor, then sure lots of pressure possible, but I don't know. anyway, if it is under severe pressure, (cause MB's Oil Pump is a MASSIVE pump that really puts out some pressure) is the hose 300Working PSI, or is it a max burst of 300?

Depends on the car, my SD wasn't worth the time or money to me. A rusted junker is a rusted junker regardless of what you do to it.

I also wouldn't be comfortable with a DIY hose, I would be driving with one eye on the oil pressure gauge all the time. The correct hoses are too cheap to mess around with anything else.

I believe tha max oil pressure the oil pump puts out is around45 PSI. I also believe that you are correct in saying that the oil from the cooler dumnps back into the pan and that there should be even less pressure in the cooler.
the hose has 300 PSI W.P. printe on it W.P. = working pressure.
On the GoodYear web site they have the spec sheet for all of their hoses. On of the uses for the hose was low pressure hydraulics.
Also the person I bought the hose from on Ebay sells this same hose for use in the after market oil coolers that he sells. GoodYear Insta-Grip.

Yeah, I paid $2,000 for my 84 300D and it has enough rust (only 2 spots on the exterior of the car) that I don't think it would have passed some of the state inspectins. Out here in CA they don't have safety inspections. The engine and the trans seem strong so I think it was worth the money but not much more than that.

False.
the gauge only goes to approx 45psi, but the pump will put out in excess of 100psi, enough to burst steel lines in the case of something obstructing it.

Buying a car you can’t afford is appears to be an American tradition.
The cost was: 8 clamps at $2 each + tax and 2 feet 2 inches of hose at about $3 per foot. So the cost was about $20 in materials for the job. (I forgot to add 1 tube of silicone sealant at the 99 cent store.)
I think that it is not just the cost that with me. I used my skills to save myself some money and to beat the system. Some people feel good when the buy something I get a better and longer lasting feeling when I fix something. Of course there is some slight risk involved but I believe that it is worth it.

I think it looks like a good job.
 

I like it and I think I am going to do mine the same way.

I know of a business in the area that does nothing but repair hydraulic lines on heavy equipment. Plus the biz is mobile(couple box trucks with a mini shop in it). I've seen them replace oil lines on big rigs at the truck stop with high quality work.

I think the oil going to the cooler is from the bypass section of the filter housing, and then returns to the pan....I am not sure on that though. If so, the pressure in the cooler lines would be relatively low.

It is too hard to get a picture of the oil flow path to show up clearly on this site with the size limits. But, the flow path to the oil cooler is from the oil pump through a thermostat in the filter housing, to the annulus around the outside of the entire filter. When the thermostat is closed in the direction to the oil cooler, the flow is directed straight to the annulus around the oil filter, where it pressurizes the lines to and from the oil cooler to the cold oil pressure at the pump outlet, minus losses from the pump to the filter housing. I think that pressure can get pretty high. There is a bypass "relief" valve in the system and I am not sure what that is set at. But in general, there is substantially more than 45 psi at the outlet of the pump under all circumstances, especially when you are moving and the gage in the dash cluster is pegged. Jim

Thanks for the Info.
What do you think the oil pressure might be in the oil cooler?
I don't believe it is going to burst my 300 PSI working pressure hose.

A previous owner of my S350D did (or had done) the hatchet job on one of the transmission cooler lines. Took awhile to trace down the leak, nothing happened, just made a nagging mess. Both lines from the Benzbin with shipping were less than 50 bucks, lost a few ounces of fluid and took maybe half an hour during an oil change. Just can't see the effort of rigging a hose when the cost isn't that great, but the results can be a real disaster.

Wayne

It is common for people to successfully add on oil or transmission coolers to their car, trucks and motorcycles. (I am fortunate enough to already have the oil cooler setup present on my vehicle.)
Any time you work on something there is a potential for something to go wrong.
There is a tread about how much of a PITA it is to change the oil cooler hoses. In that thread several people said they had to replace their oil coolers that got damaged unscrewing the hoses from them.
When I unscrewed the top one on mine 3 of the 6 threads striped. I sure did not want to try removing the bottom one and have to replace the complete oil cooler.
As it is I don’t see what could go wrong with the job I did. 2 clamps are holding each hose end to the tubing so I don’t believe that they are going to slip off. The hose that I used is not heater hose or fuel line it is made for low pressure hydraulic use. I just don’t think there is much risk involved.
I do understand that what I did is not something everyone might want to do.
I posted the thread as I was curious to see if anyone else was interested. So far one person said they already did it and one said they want to.
Best wishes.

I've done this before and I had major leaks from all hose connections. the Hose clamps never got tight enough and stripped after a certain point. I could never get the oil to stop leaking.

IF we can find a very good hose clamp then it might work.

It did leak when I used only one hose clamp and I had to really tighten it down to stop the leak. I believe the reason is that the hose was much stiffer than I expected and as I did have to tighten those clamps more than I normaly would have.
Even though the leak had stopped I was uneasy with only 1 clamp on each end.
This is why I replaced the hoses (I bought more than I needed to complete the job) applied silicone sealant to the tubing barbs and used 2 clamps on each hose end.
I also waited 6 hours to give the silicone a chance to cure before I drove it.
I has been 7 days now and no sign of a leak.
I used shielded worm gear type clamps from NAPA (USA made).
I wanted to use "T" type hose clamps but could not find any locally with a small enough ID.
I also had trouble finding suitable hose large enough to fit over the front hose barb which is larger than the others.

I will be keeping my eye open for some better type of clamps more suited for this application. Since my origional oil cooler hoses were seeping I wanted to get the job done ASAP and used the shielded worm gear clamps because that is what was available and reasonably priced.
It also would be helpful if there was a suitable hose in metric sizes available.

I took my oil cooler,welded on AN fittings, did the same to the metal pipes off of the oil filter housing, then used SS AN fitting lines. Pics are in boostnbenz's mods thread.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/700871-post71.html

I updated my mods too.

Understandable, but it seems to me the factory hose would hold up better than those clamps.

I don't know if the hose I put on will last as long as the factory hose. I do know that now it is easy to change that hose and I have 10+ feet of hose left over for spare hoses if I do need to change them. If I had to change them every 2 years I have enough hose for 20 years.
If you can find someone to sell you 2feet 2 inches of hose you have enought for a 84 300D the cost was around $3 per foot. The clamps should be reusable.
Speaking about the clamps it is clear that this job would be better with better clamps. I will continue to search the internet. T-blolt style clamps would be ideal as you can tighten down on them more but I only found 1 source that makes them small enough and it is not in the USA.

I've been mulling over your solution for the replacement hoses and I don't see any large risk here.

The hose is definitely as good as the factory hose offered by M/B. It's very unlikely that the hose will ever fail prematurely.

So, the question of suitability revolves around the clamps. If the double clamps provide the necessary sealing capability under the pressure of the oil system (maybe 50 psi.......??), and there are no leaks, I don't see the clamps failing in the future. Getting larger clamps that can offer higher clamping pressure is not desired as it greatly distorts the hose.

The only point of concern is the hose beneath the clamps. This area is subject to long term degradation.........in similar manner to the coolant hoses.........and changing the hose every few years would probably be a wise investment.

Other than the break with tradition...........does anyone else see a technical issue with this solution other than the need to replace the hose on a more frequent basis?

I sure don't. I've seen such repairs made on high pressure side lines of hydraulic earth moving equipment, which is a heck of a lot more pressure than the oil cooler hoses on our cars will ever see. Use a high-pressure, woven-core hose rated for oil, double-clamp them, and keep an eye out for leaks, and all will be fine. I am using clamps on my own car, and don't expect to have any trouble with them.

Clearly, even with factory-style crimped lines, they should be watched closely. Ever checked out the oil supply lines on the newer Nissan 3.5 V6 motors? (Or maybe it's a 4.0? It's been a while since I was under one.) The entire oil system flows through a rubber hose held in place with clamps from the factory. That's a factory solution, so clearly clamps on vital oil supply lines are not to be instantly regarded as a bad idea.

If you still don't like the idea, well, go buy hoses from the dealer. No big deal, right? It certainly looks prettier, and if a new crimped hose fails and your motor pukes as a result, I'm sure you can get a replacement motor out of the deal if you complain enough.

Through hulls on boats are double clamped. If its good enough for a boat, its good enough for this application.

I'm sure it will work, but I'll pass. I don't like any more mechanical joints than absolutely necessary. I know my original hoses lasted 20 years, so there is no good reason to do anything different.

I agree on the 617.

However, please make make another opinion........or confirm same.......if the pair of hoses cost $350.

This is the situation with the SDL's.

I do understand the cost issue, but I think I would still use the OEM hoses. $350 every couple of 100K miles is still relatively cheap (maybe $0.002 per mile) compared to the total operating cost of one of these cars. Most of us spend at least $1000 per year on less critical systems anyway (I just put about $5-600 in my cruise control, and I don't even want to think about my total AC system costs over the years), I just don't think this is the best place to save money.

BTW, I recently spent over $500 for a single (dealer only part) AC hose for the '83 240D (along with about $150 worth of R-12). The SDL is always going to have lower production volume (more expensive) parts, just part of the cost of ownership.

On a good car you shoud get the proper OE hoses. I'm talking about cars that your just trying to keep on the road for a bit longer at minimal cost.

I agree that you should do whatever you can get away with on a beater, I just wouldn't be comfortable with DIY hoses on something I was planning on keeping indefinitely.

It's quite easy to rationalize any expense if you amortize it over 100K miles. That being said, I'd like to look at the result of a $20. repair versus a $350. repair.

Do we honestly believe that the $20. repair would be less durable over a three year period? From an engineering perspective, do we think the hoses or the clamps can fail in service?

From your comments, it would appear that you believe there is some risk of this occurring. If so, I'd like to analyze what that risk might be. It's not only an exercise.........I may need to do this exact same repair on one of the SDL's and if there is no basis for an objection..........I just might try it myself.

I honestly don't know how much increase in risk there is with a hose clamp. I do occasionally have to tighten cooling system hoses at 1 bar, but I don't know if a catastrophic failure is really credible at 3+ bars. My gut feeling is that the clamp is less reliable than the OEM hose (mostly because the OEM parts do have a pretty good track record). I don't know if a clamp could loosen due to vibration and allow the hose to completely disconnect. If I was going to try a hose/clamp design, I would want a significant safety factor on the pressure rating and I would be checking the clamps pretty frequently for any sign of leakage (at least at first).

When in doubt, I tend to default to my (cost is no object) "what would I do in a critical nuclear safety system design" mode. I also default to keeping things as close to stock as possible, even if I'm the only one who knows about it. Besides, my indy would smack me upside the head if he saw something like that on my car. From my point of view:

DIY hose - $20
OEM hose - $350

Not having to think about hose failures - Priceless :D

That works for me... frequently. :D

Brian why not just get new line's crimped on? Its pretty cheap, and your SDL's aren't exactly beaters...

Yes, I know.

But, I'm not ready to condone the OE solution as the only possible solution............this engineering degree should allow me to analyze whether the proposed system will be just as durable as the factory.

I certainly realize that the factory hose will likely last over 10 years without any attention.........and that's why they need to use it. The solution with the hose clamps may need attention every three years.........and I'm perfectly fine with that.

Yes, that's a viable solution if we can find a local fellow to do it. In checking with most hydraulic shops.........metric is not a language that they speak.

You have any shops that can do this.........??