Ack! Second oil pan gasket - still leaks! What am I doing wrong?

[bodyart27]

Well I had to drop the pan to replace the turbo drain tube (super PITA - at some point I'll post pics / tips on that job). Though I got that leak fixed, I created a new one - the oil pan now leaks.

I used a new gasket and thought everything was a clean as could be - but, nope - drip drip drip.

I ordered a new pan, gasket and hardware and went about changing it this weekend. Well, as I unwrapped the new oil pan I found out that it was bent at the lip. CRAP! Called all 4 MB dealers in DFW and no one had one and I had already drained the oil and dropped the pan - CRAP!

Well before I did the turbo oil drain tube,. the pan hadn't been the source of any leaks so I gambled on the oil pan with just a new gasket. I torqued to 10nm all way round - leaked immediately. Torque the side with the leak was to 12nm (scared to go higher as those 5mm hex bolts don't look that stout). But, right now, it looks like it's still leaking. I guess I'll rig some towel / rag / diaper as to not make a mess on the bottom of the car and get the dealer to order another pan and gasket. CRAP! That and I'm going through $40 worth of Mobil 1 every change!

So - what am I doing wrong? This time I buffed the mating surface on the bottom of the engine with a little super fine steel wool and carb cleaner in case of residue. The surface is super glass smooth to the touch. I even got a SK micrometer 1/4" torque wrench that is good to .2nm and did a criss cross (opposite side) pattern. The pan was perfectly clean. I'm putting these gaskets on DRY. The leak is on the back side like before.

Should I:
(a) get a new pan, gasket and try again?
(b) do these gaskets expand some? Any chance it will stop leaking? (I know - fat chance)
(c) new pan, gasket and some kind of permatex sealant? If so - which one?

http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/auto_Permatex_High_Tack_Spray-A-Gasket_Sealant.htm

http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/Permatex_Super_High_Tack_Gasket_Sealant.htm

thanks!

[compress ignite]

It sounds like you are doing all the right things.
BUT,
'Take a piece of flat glass ,larger than the pan,dust it with talcum powder or
flour(white,sifted).'BARELY oil the clean mating surface of the pan,turn it upside
down onto the dusted glass...anywhere on the mating surface without dust
after you remove it might be un-flat.
You can try the same procedure with the mating surface of the bottom of the
engine.(only, hold the dusted glass up to the bottom of the block mating surface)

There is a member named Steve Brotherton who is a professional wrench turner
,try to send him your question.I am sure he's run up against this one before.

[funola]

What type of gasket is it? Is it cork? They are easily compromised. A rougher clean surface (rather than glass smooth) actually "grips" the gasket better.

I'd heard this Motoseal is good stuff.
http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/specialty_gasket_maker/MotoSeal_1_Ultimate_Gasket_Maker_Grey.htm

[bodyart27]

Definately not cork not rubber. It's green on both sides and white center. Looks like a paper / cardboard-ish gasket.

[tangofox007]

Originally Posted by bodyart27

I'm going through $40 worth of Mobil 1 every change!

There is no reason that the oil cannot be reused if it is drained into a clean container. And you can buy a nice, new drain pan for less than the price of one quart of Mobil 1!!!

[superbeast1098]

Personally, I see nothing wrong with using a high temp permatex sealent along with the gasket. Just make sure not to use too much of it.... It will fill in any minor gaps that the paper gasket doesnt fill in.......

Originally Posted by superbeast1098

Personally, I see nothing wrong with using a high temp permatex sealent along with the gasket. Just make sure not to use too much of it.... It will fill in any minor gaps that the paper gasket doesnt fill in.......

Yes, but I just replaced my wife's pan, and I didn't need any permatex... so I think there must be something wrong with that pan.

[Cervan]

use permatex ultra black. http://www.autozone.com/selectedZip,93309/initialAction,accessoryProductDetail/initialR,NONAPP24943/shopping/selectZip.htm spread a small ammount over the oil pan and the top of the gasket, then bolt it up. Make sure there is NO OIL on either sides. oil will keep the sillicone from sealing and cause a leak.

[Hatterasguy]

I'd try it with a new pan, your old one is probably bent.

[funola]

Definitely take a very close look (with a magnfier) at your oil pan before you install it. Look for cracks, bends etc. Check it against a piece of glas per compress ignite's post above. Maybe you can straighten the bend, if any, to make it useable.

[pawoSD]

I replaced my pan and gasket (and strainer) a month or so ago and it hasn't leaked a drop. So I bet it is the pan in your case that is causing the leaking. I didn't even precision torque it, I just tightened it up nice and snug with an allen key...took for-ev-er.

[bodyart27]

I'll buy a virgin catch container for the Mobil 1 and reuse - that makes total sense.

I think a thin layer of permatex with a new gasket and new pan couln't hurt.

It's just so maddening. This really shoudn't be so difficult.

[ImBroke]

guys, I think we need to re read what he said about he reused the old pan, which didn't leak. That being said, get the ultra black, and do a thin film on the pan, place the gasket on there, and do another thin film on top of the gasket. Let it set up for about 10 minutes, and install the pan. Just get the bolts snug, wait a half hour, and torque to specs.

This is all just IMHO of what I'd do.

Originally Posted by ImBroke

guys, I think we need to re read what he said about he reused the old pan, which didn't leak.

That doesn't prove it is still straight.

bodyart27, do you remember which order you removed the pan bolts the first time you took it off?

Guys, you're talking about a $60 oil pan, how much time do you really want to spend messing around before you replace it?