Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 12-05-2007, 02:56 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,473
This endeavour definately is not a cheap road to go down.

I spent nearly 2k just changing out my bushings, ball joints, rebuilding steering box etc. That was summer 2004. I replaced everything in the front.

Plus 18inch wheels (2k)
plus lowering springs + 700 for my klann spring compressor
plus kmac rear kit
then you are like, well im in here, I might as well do XYZ....so do keep that in mind. Get a w124 or something more updated dont waste your time making a commuter car a sports car like I did.

__________________
Current Stable:
1994 S500 v140, 210k miles, white with grey.

Former Mercedes in the Stable:
1983 300CD Turbo diesel 515k mi sold (rumor has it, that it has 750k miles on it now)
1984 300CD Turbo Diesel 150 k mi sold
1982 300D Turbo Diesel 225 sold
1987 300D Turbo Diesel 255k mi sold
1988 300 CE AMG Hammer 15k mi sold
1986 "300E" Amg Hammer 88k mi sold (it was really a 200, not even an E (124.020)
1992 500E 156k mi sold
etc.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-05-2007, 10:34 AM
Jim B.'s Avatar
Who's flying this thing ?
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: N. California./ N. Nevada
Posts: 3,611
This is outside the box, but if you are serious, take a high performance driving school course, such as Bondurant, Infineon, etc.

Improving the performance and ability of the driver is a GREAT way to inmprove the performance of the car and the skills not only make you better able to control and handle your car, they translate well over to any
other car you drive.

I would think this would be mandatory for the first time buyer of some ultra high performance car like a Porsche, Ferrari, AMG Mercedes, to get real benefit out of it, but it would be a great investment for ANY driver that owned ANY car.
__________________
1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-05-2007, 10:39 AM
Craig
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I would restore the suspension (front and rear) to "as new" condition before I even started thinking about "improvements." Anything you do beyond that is likely to bring diminishing returns. If you are really not happy with the handling characteristics of this car (once it is correct), it will be much cheaper to buy a different car.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-05-2007, 01:10 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
Zero
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Milford, CT
Posts: 19,318
You can get a real sports car cheap, I bet $1k could get you a nice Mazda Miata and another $1k could make it a nice little track car.

Remember weight is your enemy, and all you need is a drivers seat, gear shift, and steering wheel. Rip everything else out.

Something like that would be a fun little project and you are starting with a car that can run rings around most MB's.
__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-05-2007, 07:41 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Columbus OH
Posts: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim B. View Post
This is outside the box, but if you are serious, take a high performance driving school course, such as Bondurant, Infineon, etc.

Improving the performance and ability of the driver is a GREAT way to inmprove the performance of the car and the skills not only make you better able to control and handle your car, they translate well over to any
other car you drive.

I would think this would be mandatory for the first time buyer of some ultra high performance car like a Porsche, Ferrari, AMG Mercedes, to get real benefit out of it, but it would be a great investment for ANY driver that owned ANY car.
Best advice in the thread. Even if not Bondurant, several performance driving courses are available from places like the SCCA (scca.org), NASA (nasaracing.net), BMW club, Porsche club, etc.. When I started autocrossing, my times would drop several seconds each time I went. When I got good enough as a driver (at least a season) to start getting stuff on the car, they improved my times by tenths of a second.
__________________
1984 300TD
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-11-2007, 07:08 AM
RUN-EM's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 313
Improved handling....

Sorta like this:
Attached Thumbnails
Just How Would One Make The Car Handle Better-sparky-redo-068.jpg  
__________________
1983 300SD - SPARKY THE DIESEL
2004 Audi TT 3.2 Quattro Roadster
1999 SLK - aka - LIL RED
1956 Chevy Nomad - aka - REAL MAD
1940 Ford dbl dr. Deluxe - aka - ORANGE U GLAD
1998 Kawasaki Nomad bike --
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-11-2007, 07:47 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,940
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgkast View Post
Put some sticky tires on it. I have Donlop A2s on mine and can not get them to squeal. It has lots of body roll though. T-walgamuth has a 280E with slicks that he auto-x races and does fairly well. For the size, weight and era these cars handle quite well.
I have fun with mine. It has the 369 rear welded and I am running hoosier 225/50 r 14s on stock bundt cakes with about 20mm spacers on front and h and r 1" lowering springs. On launch it will lay two patches of rubber with ease. The welded diff is causing massive understeer though and for next year I am trying to figure a way to put in a limited slip without breaking the bank.

For a street car I would just put on some bilstein hd or sport and some good michelin tires and go. The 15" mercedes rims weigh about 20# while the 14" weigh about 14# so you will get a rougher ride. IMHO you will not be able to feel the difference in handling except for the rougher ride which you will be able to feel.

The 15" rims are ok on the heavier s class but too heavy for the 123 cars, imho. I love the sweet ride of the 240d little aluminum rims which weigth only 10#.

Tom W
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-11-2007, 01:34 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Proctor, Montana
Posts: 6
this thread is of great interest to me: my '83 300D has always had both handling and tire wear "issues" that need both understanding and fixing. The facts are:
1) bad tire wear on the inside edge of the drivers side front tire (gone in 10,000 miles)
2) poor high speed handling - does not ride the 'rail' - likes to wander.
3) 4 different alignment machines ( shops) show perfect 4 wheel alignment.
4) oem alloy rims with 'H' rated tires for stiffer sidewall stability.
5) no obvious worn parts (lots of new stuff like upper ball joints etc)
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-11-2007, 01:49 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
Zero
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Milford, CT
Posts: 19,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUN-EM View Post
Sorta like this:
H&R's or did you cut them?

Looks really good!
__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-11-2007, 02:41 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proctor View Post
this thread is of great interest to me: my '83 300D has always had both handling and tire wear "issues" that need both understanding and fixing. The facts are:
1) bad tire wear on the inside edge of the drivers side front tire (gone in 10,000 miles)
2) poor high speed handling - does not ride the 'rail' - likes to wander.
3) 4 different alignment machines ( shops) show perfect 4 wheel alignment.
4) oem alloy rims with 'H' rated tires for stiffer sidewall stability.
5) no obvious worn parts (lots of new stuff like upper ball joints etc)
The rods that run from near the unibody up to the lower control arm? Have you checked those trust bushings? Just replace them.
__________________
Current Stable:
1994 S500 v140, 210k miles, white with grey.

Former Mercedes in the Stable:
1983 300CD Turbo diesel 515k mi sold (rumor has it, that it has 750k miles on it now)
1984 300CD Turbo Diesel 150 k mi sold
1982 300D Turbo Diesel 225 sold
1987 300D Turbo Diesel 255k mi sold
1988 300 CE AMG Hammer 15k mi sold
1986 "300E" Amg Hammer 88k mi sold (it was really a 200, not even an E (124.020)
1992 500E 156k mi sold
etc.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-11-2007, 03:24 PM
RUN-EM's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 313
Lordy it's lowered.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
H&R's or did you cut them?

Looks really good!
H & R SEL springs. Used one no. 1 spring cup in front and one no.2 spring cup in rear. In retrospect, should have used no 2-3 in front and maybe no 3 in rear. Wheels are 1999 SLK stockers with stock lug bolts. Still clears fenders though, but am really glad for the stock Mercedes pan protector in the front. They say they don't make these skid plates anymore, so you might have to make one if you venture to go so loooowwww

If you cut the stock springs, use an air cut-off wheel (no torch). Removal of one coil equals about .8 to 1.2 inches lower. But I wanted the stiffer H & R spring for more body control and less roll. The wider tires help in the stopping/cornering. The nose down attitude plus the taller tires does give a little better fuel mileage (seem to be getting about 30-ish in mixed town/freeway driving). Engine does run a little cooler too with better air flow thru radiator.

Regards

Run-Em
Attached Thumbnails
Just How Would One Make The Car Handle Better-sparky-redo-054.jpg  
__________________
1983 300SD - SPARKY THE DIESEL
2004 Audi TT 3.2 Quattro Roadster
1999 SLK - aka - LIL RED
1956 Chevy Nomad - aka - REAL MAD
1940 Ford dbl dr. Deluxe - aka - ORANGE U GLAD
1998 Kawasaki Nomad bike --
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-11-2007, 03:55 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Proctor, Montana
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by omegabenz View Post
The rods that run from near the unibody up to the lower control arm? Have you checked those trust bushings? Just replace them.
thanks omegabenz - I have not replaced those particular bushing but since I have it apart in the shop I will now.
Odd, though, how the tire wear issue affects only the one side/wheel... its been like this since I got the car at 100K (now has 270k). No sign of collision.

btw - your benz looks fantastic!

Last edited by Proctor; 12-11-2007 at 04:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-11-2007, 06:55 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Columbus OH
Posts: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proctor View Post
this thread is of great interest to me: my '83 300D has always had both handling and tire wear "issues" that need both understanding and fixing. The facts are:
1) bad tire wear on the inside edge of the drivers side front tire (gone in 10,000 miles)
2) poor high speed handling - does not ride the 'rail' - likes to wander.
3) 4 different alignment machines ( shops) show perfect 4 wheel alignment.
4) oem alloy rims with 'H' rated tires for stiffer sidewall stability.
5) no obvious worn parts (lots of new stuff like upper ball joints etc)
1) and 2) is improper toe setting. You need to have the toe adjusted in. The tires should be slightly pigeon toed at rest to get rid of wander because the tires spread slightly at speed.
EDIT:nvm, brain skipped #3.
__________________
1984 300TD
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-11-2007, 07:37 PM
SirNik84's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sacramento, Ca
Posts: 1,470
I posted this a while back... but i cleaned it up the other day for another forum. here is what i did on my 300SD. I'm sure all of this can be transfered to the W123. the 116 sway bar may need to come from a 115. but I'm sure it could work.

W126 suspension upgrades (the cheap and dirty way)


THE BACK


I've installed 3 Nub rubbers in the back, a rear sway bar off of a 116.

I read somewhere that the 116 sway bar fit in the 126... but I can't remember the forum, and i searched all over the place for verification, but no luck. so i went to the pick and pull and laid under a few cars. and it looked like it fit, except its mounted further back in the 116, thus the bar is about twice the diameter as the bar in the 126, to make up for the extra torque the longer arms would deliver. so i thought SWEET. I'll just lop off the extra 3 inches of arm, and drill some new holes....

I took the bar to school, and removed the 126 bar and tried to install the 116 bar. no luck. the 126 bar has a bend in it that moves it out of the way of the rear dif mount. this bend faces the rear of the car. well the 116 bar has a bend also, but since it is mounted further back in the car, the bend bends toward the front of the car to clear the spare tire sump in the trunk. so the only way to make the 116 bar fit was backward!

so i ran to home depot, and bought some steel bar stock. 1in x 1/4in x 3ft cut it into 2 14in peaces. i then cut the arms of the 116 bar off so that only 6 inches of the arms were left. i them welded the bar stock onto the 116 bar. i used a vice and the leverage of the 116 bar to bend the steel bar stock into the shape of the arms on the 126 bar and.... IT FITS!

it rubs on the spare tire sump. so i took a hammer to the sump... it needs a few more wacks. i had to use a razor knife to carve the 116 sway bar bushings to fit into the smaller 126 holders.

I'm currently using the plastic 126 sway bar links. but I'm going to order some metal ones off of a 115/116 to handle the stiffer bar better.

THE FRONT

First I started by chopping 1 360 degree coil out of some front springs i got from the pick and pull. I installed them and the car sat way lower. so low that the oil pan hit the ground and the tires hit the finders. I do have rather large tires on the car. 60/225/R15.. anyway. the car was to low and to soft for my taste. I also noticed that the car was leaning to the drivers side. so i compressed the springs and installed some coil in spring rubbers. this lifted the front of the car slightly and made it way stiffer. i also installed a 2 nub rubber on the front passenger side and left a 3 nub on the drivers side.

the car now sits great. and handles awesome.

the car still leans toward the drivers side. both front and rear are 1/2 inch lower on the drivers side. I plan on making some shims and shimming the drivers side until it matches the passengers side. but I'm waiting on that until i get new tires. because i'm sure part of the reason I've got a lean to the drivers side is because i'm in the car alone most of the time.

attached are some pics of the modified 116 sway bar. and the rubber coil shim i installed in the front. and the spring out of the car with the rubber coil installed in the spring. and the car in the parking lot outside.






__________________
1983 Toyota Tercel 4WD Wagon - 1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD 4-Speed(My Car!) 2005 C230 Kompressor 6-Speed Manual
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-11-2007, 08:00 PM
toomany MBZ's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: central Va
Posts: 7,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgkast View Post
Put some sticky tires on it. I have Donlop A2s on mine and can not get them to squeal. It has lots of body roll though. T-walgamuth has a 280E with slicks that he auto-x races and does fairly well. For the size, weight and era these cars handle quite well.
Between this and Jim B.'s advice about driving school. Best answer.
Larger diameter rims will add weight. The 14 inch bundts weigh all of 13 pounds.

__________________
83 SD

84 CD
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page