617-952 won't start - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

patbob · #16 12-11-2007, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiz3D

I could understand a stuck fuel shut-off ..... but it should lite right off spraying wd directly into the turbo, right? There seems that maybe there two (or more) stoppages here .... Where should I go next ??

Glowplugs?

barry123400 · #17 12-11-2007, 10:09 PM

I agree with the above post. Make sure the glowplugs are working. It should have caught with the wd 40 in my opinion.
You could have multiple problems. If the glow plugs are working I would move on to a compression check. I assume you checked the pump timing by the drip method with the first cylinder cam lobes basically pointing upward? Since you have no fuel the pump timing is irrelevant at this point.
If you used a used head was it off a running engine? If not did you invert it and fill the chambers with fuel to check valve seal? Your climate is pretty decent so rust on the seats and valves should not be a major problem.
Has the used head had a recent valve job? Why did you change heads initially? Just trying to be helpful. You may be on the road to proving two heads are not always better than one.

I too am getting older with a slight decline in vision and many other mental and body functions. I blame it on wine, women and song. I am 39 this year.

Unfortunatly I am reallly 65 and enjoying it although possibly the only thing proven is I have lived to sixty five. The other thing I believe is you are as old as you feel. It has been quite a ride to this point. Keep posting until the problem or problems are located.

Wiz3D · #18 12-12-2007, 10:54 AM

Let's see ... with regard to the glow plugs: the light comes and goes out so circuit/relay seems to be working, have not checked for juice at the plugs themselves yet.

Have not messed with pump timing either as the pump on the block that I used was still bolted solidly in place. Its head was taken off by an MBZ shop here in town who used it for another job. Would have been no reason to have moved the pump at all.

The head that I put on there came off a running engine that I pulled out of another car when its crank failed. I did not remove the good head until I was ready to use it. Some ham-fisted hack had put that motor's balancer on 180 out and trashed the crankshaft snout. That motor ran fine ... 'cept for the poor crank ... no accessories spun

. I did not do any combustion chamber leak checks .... other than clean it up and it looked pretty good ... I just bolted it in place.

Thanks for identifying with my geriatric issures too, Barry ... lol ... sounds like we have led parallel lives.

Guess I need to pull the cam cover and check to be certain that the cam timing is OK .... BUT ... as long as the cam timing is good, shouldn't compression alone, even without the glow system, fire the thing on WD?

rrgrassi · #19 12-12-2007, 11:33 AM

Is it possible that the #1 piston is at TDC during the exhaust stroke vs. the compression stroke? In other words, phased 180 degrees off?

Wiz3D · #20 12-12-2007, 12:56 PM

Well, yup, ... it's definately possible, RR. Stranger things have happened but, in 40 yrs of twisting bolts and many motor builds, I haven't done that yet .... however, there is always a first time. I'll be takin' of that cam cover in a few minutes for a quick check of that.

rrgrassi · #21 12-12-2007, 01:10 PM

I had to fix many things the PO and his Hack Mechanic "fixed".

On my Nissan 4x4, my mother knew of a guy who could replace the timing belt. The 4x4 cover is different than the 4x2, in that the belt "line up" dot is missing, so he lined up the crank with the water drain. That turned out to be 20 degrees retarded. I did the next timing belt my self and figured it out. Good thing I have the factory manuals on it!

I do not think it's anything you did.

vstech · #22 12-12-2007, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrgrassi

Is it possible that the #1 piston is at TDC during the exhaust stroke vs. the compression stroke? In other words, phased 180 degrees off?

um, it's the cam that determines whether it's compression or exhaust... so there is no way you can mess this up, you CAN mess up the timing with relation to the IP, but we are not getting IP function anyway... as long as you lined up the cam marks and the TDC marks, the cam is in fine.

rrgrassi · #23 12-12-2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

um, it's the cam that determines whether it's compression or exhaust... so there is no way you can mess this up, you CAN mess up the timing with relation to the IP, but we are not getting IP function anyway... as long as you lined up the cam marks and the TDC marks, the cam is in fine.

True, but it is hard to tell if the crank was turned after the head was removed, and say some "curious" soul turned the crank one turn to see the pistons move or see how hard it is to turn by hand.

If it's bare block, or OHC, not an issue, as long as all the marks line up, but be an old V type and timing chain attached to the cam (Chevy 350 or other) or add the IP in the mix...

Wiz3D · #24 12-12-2007, 03:43 PM

Ok ... well we can put the cam /crank timing aside for now ... I just checked everything in that loop and it is all correct. Right now I'm redoing the rocker lash since I found #1 intake too tight. When I button it back up, at least I'll know then what it isn't ... sooooo .... why's the fuel not gerpumpen, eh? I do have another IP on the defuct motor and I know it did work for 100% sure. Who here knows if it should light off with only WD40 and a 'no glow' situation?

Wiz3D · #25 12-12-2007, 05:25 PM

Incidentally, Barry and others, the reason I put this head on this motor is cuz there was no head on there when I got the car. I got this car from the local MBZ independent repair shop. The owner, Franz Huber, knew I had a lot of 123s cuz he sees 'em at my house on his way to his shop. He stopped one day and offered me this gray 84. It was missing a head, a trans, an instrument cluster and climate control buttons and a plethora of other various and sundry stuff ... all or most of which I already had. He had aquired the car in a lien sale and, over time, had sold off much of the good stuff. I think he said that it initially had come in with a bad trans but swore that the bottom end of this motor was very good ... and I believe that's true. These couple of motors and head have sat around, some of the time with lines uncapped, in the elements for upwards of a year ... maybe more. I can't help thinking ahead of myself .... wondering if the IP is somehow trashed from sitting out ???

Wiz3D · #26 12-12-2007, 06:49 PM

I once read a thread written by Hunter about starting up a diesel after a rebuild. Search as I may, I can't find that thread again .... ??? Wish I could.

BUT .... if I remember correctly, he said to REMOVE the injectors THEN crank the motor in 20 second increments with a rest OR something like that?

Did I read that right? Need I fully remove the injectors and lines, re-install the lines and then crank till it drips then re-install the injectors? If so, I wonder why?

Cervan · #27 12-12-2007, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiz3D

I once read a thread written by Hunter about starting up a diesel after a rebuild. Search as I may, I can't find that thread again .... ??? Wish I could.

BUT .... if I remember correctly, he said to REMOVE the injectors THEN crank the motor in 20 second increments with a rest OR something like that?

Did I read that right? Need I fully remove the injectors and lines, re-install the lines and then crank till it drips then re-install the injectors? If so, I wonder why?

Reason for that was to save the starter, you can do the same thing by removing the glowplugs but the injectors are easier to remove imo

Wiz3D · #28 12-12-2007, 11:17 PM

So .... no compressoin .... motor spins easier .... pumps fuel faster ... that the idea, Cervan?

rrgrassi · #29 12-13-2007, 09:28 AM

Yes, that is the idea. You can also do a compression check also.

Wiz3D · #30 01-03-2008, 12:02 AM

Haven't been able to wrench non-stop on this beast thus keeping this thread up top .... but .... it is now running.

After checking everything ELSE recommended on this forum, it got dowm to pump timing. I saved it for last cuz I knew it would be a PITA to R&R the IP. After checking carefully a couple of times, the timing appeared to be between 60 and 90 degrees out .... too much to twist a bit to correct .... incredulous and not completely sure of what I had discovered, I reluctantly began to pull off all the stuff in order to remove the injection pump. There is always a pleasant suprise waiting ... the LONG, hard-to-get-to bolt, in the oil filter housing, directly in front of the steering box, had been rounded out by a former mechanic .... nice, eh?. Eventually got it loose, pulled the IP, and, sure enough, it was as I thought ... about 90 degrees out of time. I had already preset the crank to 24 degrees advance, then I just lined up the marks on the pump, put the whole thing back together and it fired within a few tries on WD40 and picked right up ... and runs very good, this Frankendiesel.

Thanks again everyone for your brains and experience .... never again will I assume that the pump timing is correct on an unknown entity, stupid notion on my part .... woulda' been a heck of a lot easier to fix when the motor was out of the car.