I have a feeling the Chinese are gearing up to kick the industrialized world's ass. They are just feeling their way along right now, copying Western products for less, producing inferior products in many cases. They will learn how to do quality control, figure out which costs can be cut and which ones are neccessary as time goes on.

I'd want to see evidence that they were at that point with whatever product I planned to use, before I put it into my car.

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" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles

If bosch can't do it, I doubt that you can.

Please elaborate, Twitch. If Bosch can't do what? And who is "you?"

__________________
" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles

Build reliable nozzles in asia. Whoever is thinking about attempting this.

From experience I can tell you that the Indian and Chinese stuff ranks at the bottom.

Everything from the poor steel quality, control of the heat treatment, and the sub par spray hole manufacturing that result in uneven flow rates between parts.

I have found in my inbox almost daily from being associated in the Diesel parts business constant "offers" to purchase these parts at a cost that nears impossible. While at the same time in daily work we replace these things that are marketed to be "perfect copies" A four to five dollar part can only have so much quality left after they take their profit out of the transaction.

__________________
1987 300TD ( under resto )
1987 300E SOLD
1987 300D
1993 400E
1997 Dodge/Cummins 3500
2004 E320 Wagon SOLD
2006 BMW M5 Yes, they will go 204 MPH SOLD
2008 BMW 535i SOLD (POS)
2011 BMW X5 Diesel
2013 X5M Tuned to 700+ HP Stupid Fast SOLD
2016 Nissan Titan XD Cummins 5.0!
2004 Audi Quattro ( track car ) AutoX machine
2010 BMW 328i ( sometimes track, but the Audi is faster )


I own maybe 100 t-shirts and they all smell like Diesel fuel and test oil......

77 300D

I agree that there is alot of junk coming from China. Just look at all of the toys that are currently being recalled. But the fact remains, they are capable of producing quality items when they want to. Example: Living in the hurricane capital of Florida, I decided that I needed a generator capable of powering my whole house including several refrigerators ( keep the beer cold ), A/C, lights, etc. I thought 12 KW would do it.. I found a Chinese made single cylinder Changfa diesel engine that puts out 22 hp. It cost less than $800 including the freight to get it here and it is quite an engine. Turns out these things are used all over the third world for powering whole villages, pumps, Flour mills, oil presses, and even boat engines. They are made to run practically forever, and they aren't fussy about what fuel they burn. They are simple to work on and come with a part parts kit that will keep it going for ever I think.

To make a long story short, I built the generator and it works fine. I can't produce power as cheap as the Electric Company, but I can produce it here were I need it during the worst of conditions.

I have experience as a tractor dealer repairing Chinese, I NEVER SOLD ANY, tractors.
Let me tell you everythAng and I mean everything on them is junk. The fuel injection, engine in general, right down to the lug nuts that suck.
Tractors with 40 hours from new warranty not honored and the cam gear sticking thru the engine front cover. Then another with a stripped IP drive. No luck customer threw 10K away.
I guarantee you that the injectors would not hold up. Their springs are brittle, the the metal would not be of the same quality, heck the threads will be goofy, everything.
Heck the bosch injectors I bought thru a foreign car parts store were that much. $65 or $70.
Don't mess with any chinese crap.

The funny fact is that the same made in India BOSCH pumps and injectors are used in the huge number of commercial and private diesel vehicles in India. Outside the cities, the condition of diesel is usually atrocious, adulterated diesel fuel is commonplace, so is dirty water and algae contaminated fuel and yet, day after day, these diesel vehicles manage to survive and run. The only reason I would guess about the QC issues on the BOSCH nozzles from India could be that they were made by 3rd party instead of BOSCH for some time. Only recently did BOSCH India which is a 40 year old company there expand to accommodate the heavy load. Diesel is heavily subsidized in India so apart from commercial, significant portion of automobiles sold in India are diesel, that would include various Skoda, SUVs, Mercedes C-220 and E class etc. Force motors in India makes the C class engine for Mercedes as well as the tranny. They have also started manufacturing MAN trucks. Force's relationship with MB goes back from 60s, same goes for Tata who was the first non German manufacturer of MB engines in Asia. Considering all that, do you really think the Germans or MB would wish to jeopardize their reputation by relegating manufacture of all this to an inferior party?

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99 Gurkha with OM616 IDI turbo

2015 Gurkha with OM616 DI turbo

2014 Rexton W with OM612 VGT

This point has been brought up before. People driving 25 year old cars could never hurt the reputation of any company. Almost all people would just think that it is normal for old cars to have problems.

In an word, YES. Companies have done it before and will do it again. Look at the Model 70 Winchester. They moved it to Japan and lost a lot of customers when quality went down the toilet.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Not in this case....BOSCH has been here since 60s and BOSCH India have been supplying parts to Germany since 70s. BOSCH India parts are used in various engines including OM611, VW and every other Indian diesel vehicles. Imagine what it will be if the failure rate is that high, the consequences in warranty returns would bankrupt the company itself.

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99 Gurkha with OM616 IDI turbo

2015 Gurkha with OM616 DI turbo

2014 Rexton W with OM612 VGT

My theory: The very best parts no matter where they are made are going into the new MB vehicles that the company will have to warrent. The manufacturing of parts for the older vehicles like mine not under warrenty are being sent to other countries and the companies are doing that are obviously not worried about the quality of parts for old used vehicles. If all I can get for my old vehicle are poorly made replacment parts I might be induced to give up on the old one and buy a NEW one.

You cannot compare how vehicles and engines are used in poorer countries to here. As an example when I was in the Philippines every car that I road in with a manual transmission had badly slipping and noisy clutches. As long as that car can move they will not make any effort due to little money available to repair it (not talking about the rich people). When it finally cannot move the will throw the flywheel and clutch parts and replace them with whatever used parts they can get a hold of that will work enough to get the car moveing again. So as you were saying in India there are alot of diesels running in adverse conditions with Indian made parts but I believe that they are operating a lot of equipment that is badly thrashed and not giving any thing close to the preformance the we want here.
If you buy a set of rebuilt Bosch injectors and 6 months later you are having a problem so you pull them out and have them tested;and let us say the spray pattern is NG or the nozzle is peeing out fuel. You can only face the facts if that nozzle turns out to be from India or China. In many other country the same injectors would stay in the engine until it got so bad it absolutely had to be changed; that dose not mean the parts were of high quality.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

"Das Beste oder Nichts."

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62 220sb
67 250S
72 280SE 4.5
74 280C
77 300D
82 240D
85 190E 2.3
86 300E RIP 12/28/09
85 300SD
92 300D 2.5
00 E320 Current
Over 1,000,000 miles in Benzes, Since66

....and a whole passel of BMW 2002 and Tii

My experience is that India can hand has made some very good products. I think its part due to the British. I did some machining on some lathes made in India. They were some of the smoothest lathes I've worked on. Their only problem was the vibrated on longer parts. It could have been the drive belts weren't setup correctly. Also, someone in one of the machine shops I worked at bought some inside micrometers made in india. They were less than half for other makes. They seemed to be OK.
On Chinese stuff, they quality seems spotty. At lest on consumer products, but I've herd it also on stamping dies and stuff. Two people in the machine shop ordered a 0-4 set of OD mics. One set was OK, the other felt like it had sand in it. I really worry more about the quality of the steel used.
One place that might offer quality and low cost if Eastern Europe. Poland, Romania, Chec republic etc. The firearms from there are very well made. I do have an indicator mic made in Poland. It isn't as nice as a Starret or Mytotoyo, but very close. The cost was about %50 more that a Chinese one, but a 1/4 of Mitotoyo.
Tom

I've seen very high quality stuff roll out of both India and China, so I'm not surprised in the least. To say that either country is incapable of making good products, or worse, that they intentionally export junk just isn't true. For all the people that want to point at the junk and scream about it, stop and consider who it is that continues to import the products, frequently without ever attempting to improve quality unless legal ramifications threaten them.

Bosch injection parts from India are of great interest to me. If the issue with their nozzles, for example, was due to them farming them out to a third party for manufacture, I wouldn't be surprised at all. If, as you suggest, they have expanded their facilities there, and no longer farm out the work, then that would suggest a possibility that the nozzles made there might have increased in quality. Do you have some evidence to suggest that they have improved? I'll be happy to hear it if they have.

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- K.C.Adams

'77 300D Euro Delivery
OM617 turbo / 4-speed swap
404 Milanbraun Metallic / 134 Dattel MB-Tex

Current status:
* Undergoing body work

My '77 300D progress thread