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#1
10-20-2007, 04:06 PM
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RIV timing method
I am using M.B. DOC RIV tool to check and adjust if needed IP timing on 84 300 turbo diesel. I have 335,000 miles with 2.5 degrees of chain stretch. I cant believe what I am seeing if I am reading the balancer right, but does this picture indicate the timing is right on 15 degrees it has never been adjusted since purchased with 52,000 miles on it. M.B DOC says its best to set to 14 - 14.5 degrees is it worth the effort to change this. Thanks for any input.
__________________
84 300 Turbo / 320,000 96 E300 D / 55,000 
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#2
10-20-2007, 04:20 PM
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It looks like a perfect 15 degrees to me
And I would not mess with it to pick up that half of or one degree. I think that would be like looking for trouble - just how I feel about it.
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Junqueyardjim Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. C.S. Lewis 1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA 2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage, Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it!
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#3
10-20-2007, 07:23 PM
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That picture is showing 15 degrees AFTER top dead center, NOT before top dead center. Does the engine run?
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#4
10-20-2007, 07:33 PM
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15º ATDC is correct for the RIV tool; it's just measuring a different point on the pump than the other methods. Still the same time of injection, but a different reference point on the IP shaft.
__________________
The Golden Rule 1984 300SD (bought new, sold it in 1988, bought it back 13 yrs. later)
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#5
10-20-2007, 07:38 PM
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Larry, are you sure?
It looks to me like he is coming up on the timing marks, (before "0") after the zero shows, wouldn't that be after tdc. That is what I see. Nope, looked at it again and I think Larry is correct. Sorry!
__________________
Junqueyardjim Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. C.S. Lewis 1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA 2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage, Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it! Last edited by junqueyardjim; 10-20-2007 at 07:41 PM. Reason: add a line
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#6
10-20-2007, 07:50 PM
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drip method...................24º BTDC
RIV light method.............15º ATDC IP locking pin method.......15º ATDC pulse piezo method..........14º BTDC All these methods measure the same event (fuel hitting the prechamber), but from different reference points, both in location and time.
__________________
The Golden Rule 1984 300SD (bought new, sold it in 1988, bought it back 13 yrs. later)
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#7
10-20-2007, 08:20 PM
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Is this correct am I seeing 15 degrees ATTC?
__________________
84 300 Turbo / 320,000 96 E300 D / 55,000
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#10
12-09-2007, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Hope this info answers your question.
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#11
12-09-2007, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Apparently, there is no reluctance utilized. Inside the IP is a triangular nosepiece. This piece rolls around into one of the prongs on the sender. It provides a ground for the unit and the "B" light is illuminated. The piece rolls a bit further and it contacts both prongs on the sender, simultaneously. Both the "A" and "B" light are now illuminated. The piece rools a bit further and it loses contact with the first prong. Now the "A" light is illuminated. Finally, it moves further and the piece rolls off the last prong and all the lights are out. The device can't be simpler............and it costs upward of $300. I'm in the wrong business. 
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#12
12-11-2007, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
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#13
12-13-2007, 10:22 AM
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The A-B tool (position sensor) is NOT the RIV tool
RE: All the posts about the "RIV tool" not using reluctance...
Its because you DO NOT have the RIV tool. The RIV tool really does time the setup dynamically. I don't know how the A-B light timing device (which is what you have) came to be known as the RIV tool, but it is not. MB calls it the "position sensor." Check these PDFs, and you'll see the difference.  http://starquake.ath.cx/mercedes/DieselTech/07.1-8240.pdf http://starquake.ath.cx/mercedes/DieselTech/07.1-8244.pdf If the crank indicator is off, neither method will work (the tach doesn't care if it is off, but the RIV tool needs it to be in the proper place). Since the position sensor is $300 I don't want to know how much a real RIV tool costs!!  Not to mention there are multiple parts...
__________________
John Robbins '05 E320 CDI - 240k '87 300TD - 318k
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#14
12-13-2007, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Thanks for the info.
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#15
12-09-2007, 12:55 PM
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Heh. I've wondered in the past if it wasn't more simple than others were reporting it to be, but I didn't have one to play with to examine, so...
Speaking as one who prefers to build all my own "special" tools, does anyone have any basic dimensions for the IP locking tool, that holds the indicator point in the right location? I'm interested in just milling a groove on the face of a correct diameter rod and dropping it in the hole to help resetting the timing on the IP.
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-Josh Testing the cheap Mercedes axiom, one bolt at a time...
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