Brian....I can't believe the RIV tool is more than a simple light switch! If this is really the case, I'm the one that feels like a tool. After borrowing this device and wasting lots of time, my 87 300SDL ran worse than ever. Since the previous owner launched a serpentine belt and FUBARed the timing pointer I assumed that the TDC marks were off and went back to my old method and timed it by ear. It ran great after this.

IMO for all the talk about this topic....a degree here and a degree there, I would not be surprised if a number of members are a few degrees off due to the inaccuracy from MB's sloppy engineering of this TDC reference.

BTW, I found that the location of the IP timing tit can also be problematic even when the unit has been removed and on the bench. It was necessary to hose the internals and use a bright light since this reference mark looks nearly identical to other rotating lobes. This temporarily canned an inductive pickup tool which I had begun to build.

So far I'm not at all impressed by MB's designs for referencing TDC or IP timing so if the RIV light is NOT an inductive pickup I will be thoroughly disgusted.

I was a bit surprised myself. But, my RIV tool doesn't work on one of the lights. An investigation reveals that the two copper probes are at slightly different depths. One of the probes contacts the rotating notch.........one doesn't. So, I need to get the threaded insert to move a bit further into the IP to get the second light to function.

It's as simple as that.

Yep, if the timing pointer is off.........no amount of work with the RIV tool will get you where you need to be.

Well I needed to check and adjust this rotten little unit again today after an engine rebuild and wasted some more time. As far as I'm concerned, the only way to quickly and accurately get this right is to adjust the IP dynamically. After noticing how close the other internal lobes are in relation to the desired reference tit leads me to believe that an inductive pickup may not be ideal.

Any thoughts on the accuracy and availability of common electronic pickups whether they be pulse sensors or hall effect devices? I would be willing to bet that a standard knock sensor signal could be amplified. At the same time a dummy actuator placed in the IP delivery tube might be easier and more accurate although it might mean running the car on 5 cylinders for the adjustment.

I swear I'll come up with an inexpensive and accurate solution then post the schematic. I never did like static timing except on lawnmowers.

UberGeek, I'm missing something. How does an instrument that provides a start of delivery signal help you set timing with a questionably positioned TDC pointer? Seems you're better served by a dyno or stopwatch and counting turns of the adjustment turnbuckle, or using an exhaust gas analyzer.

Sixto
87 300D

I've used one of those devices with DieselNut14 and it works as advertised. You put the piezo sensor on the injector line and adjust the IP until the strobe light reada 14BTDC at the balancer.

If you still have the RIV tool, you can now reset the pointer to 15ATDC when both lights are illuminated.

I would have never guessed that the thing is that simple. I have used it twice and it is now on loan (for the past 3 months). I am really curious to see what you are detailing in the sensor. It is a mystery why MB calls this one and the "dynamic" version -- sensors to detect the "governor impulse". Doesn't sound like an impulse to me that is being detected in this version. But MB does state the sensors are detecting a governor impulse. Very disappointing to have paid so much for so little. Appreciate the feedback and info on this.

Isn't that more like 24*BTDC?

I still don't see how you can set the IP without a reliable reference. How is using a strobe more accurate than the A-B light when the pointer is known to be off?

I'd just as soon set the crank pulley pointer using the cam alignment marks or a compression whistle in the glow plug hole :/

Sixto
87 300D

On Ebay is selling 617 589 09 21 00 dynamic injection pump timing and other Mercedes test equipment.

http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZ5385gerald

Sixto, regarding the factory TDC pointer, maybe I wasn't clear but my comments had nothing to do with trying to determine this particular reference mark. That was resolved months ago and I can assure you, it wasted mountains of valuable time. The fact that MB didn't see fit to place a reference mark on their flywheel, which is the only truly accurate reference, needed for all timing events, prompted my disparaging remark. I will post the solution on a separate thread in the future as this is a bit off topic.

My main point was that (assuming the TDC marks are accurate) , I believe there are better ways to time the IP if for no other reason than to save time. IMO IP timing for a diesel, like ignition timing in a gasser are important settings and since timing is of little interest below 2000 RPM, why opt for spending time and money ($300 for the RIV) when it can be done dynamically. Furthermore, the addition of inaccuracies such as chain slop, injector valve opening, including questionable TDC references, lead me to believe that placing so much emphasis on a tool like the RIV doesn't make much sense. I ended up marking my flywheel and would be delighted to see a strobe flash of actual injector firing at 3000 RPM.

Sorry for all the confusion.

I fully agree. I don't understand how IP timing is limited to +/- half a degree when the cam timing tolerance is 3-4 degrees. Seems to me you use the tool to get the engine to start then tune by feel.

Sixto
87 300D

Any direction on how and where this tool is used? I have one, I looked in the MB CD, but no mention of it.
Tom

Agreed. Without a reliable pointer, you cannot set timing with the pulse tool or the RIV tool.

The timing on the pulse tool is 14BTDC. The timing using the drip method is 24BTDC. The timing with the RIV is 15ATDC. In theory, they all accomplish the same thing.

If this is what your are talking about 601 589 05 21 00 I have (1 sold now 2 used ones left) I will sell for $15 and free shipping to the lower 48 states (I have 3 of them). You can buy it get your demensions make your own tool and resell it if you want to. This is a pic of a new one.

RE: All the posts about the "RIV tool" not using reluctance...

Its because you DO NOT have the RIV tool. The RIV tool really does time the setup dynamically. I don't know how the A-B light timing device (which is what you have) came to be known as the RIV tool, but it is not. MB calls it the "position sensor."

Check these PDFs, and you'll see the difference.

http://starquake.ath.cx/mercedes/DieselTech/07.1-8240.pdf
http://starquake.ath.cx/mercedes/DieselTech/07.1-8244.pdf

If the crank indicator is off, neither method will work (the tach doesn't care if it is off, but the RIV tool needs it to be in the proper place).

Since the position sensor is $300 I don't want to know how much a real RIV tool costs!! Not to mention there are multiple parts...

__________________
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 240k
'87 300TD - 318k

Its about ~$25... is that worth spending the time to make your own special tool? If it is thats fine, but no sense in spending time on it otherwise...

__________________
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 240k
'87 300TD - 318k