I've found a 1972 220D. Never had a diesel before but, I'm hoping some of you have some advice for me... This car has been sitting for 2+ years and I am sure that there is a right way to get it going again correctly in areas such as oil and other vital engine necessities. As a woman I don't find the process familiar or intuitive. Please help me "cover all the bases" as I get this baby up and running.
Thanks for whatever advice you've got!!

> I don't find the process familiar or intuitive.

If this comment is truly indicative of your familiarity with cars, then I would stay away from this thing. Any old car, especially one that has been sitting for 2 years, requires ownership by someone VERY comfortable doing their own car repairs (unless you are really rich and are willing to pay someone far more than the car is worth to get it on the road and keep it there). See if you are able and willing to spend money to fix the following repairs that are likely for a car that has been sitting that long. And remember that this car is only worth about $1-2K anyway.

-will need to rotors, pads and probably new calipers. then flush the coolant system.
-exhaust is probably shot
-all kinds of suspention parts will be dry rotted and worn out - may need balljoints, shocks, etc.
-tires are likely dry rotted and no good
-will need a new battery
-needs valves adjusted
-likely every rubber hose and gasket in the engine compartment is dry rotted and leaking. Coolant hoses are old and probably ready to burst, which will cause the engine to overheat and cost you about $1,000 for a rebuilt head.
-the seat springs are probably all worn out, which will cost you about $200 to repair if you do the work yourself. Very unpleasant to drive the car if the seats are really worn.
-is it an automatic or manual. Manual tranny probably needs new seals, new master and slave cylinders and the clutch is probably on its last legs. Automatic tranny will cost you around $2k to replace, and being 25+ years old, it is probably ready to die any day now.

-the list goes on. My point is, don't buy this if you plan on just hopping in it and using it as a daily driver. It will need almost constant attention for the first six months or so, and once you get all the little stuff worked out, it should be a realiable car. I'm just saying that age and non-use really take a toll on cars. Add to that the fact that most people totally neglect their cars, and you are looking at an expensive proposition. If you can fix nearly everything yourself and its cheap to buy (like $500-$1k), buy it. Otherwise, stay away.

Greg

Debi,
I agree with the Majority on this one. I am a 20+ veteran tech and have pretty deep pockets to play "Raise The Titanic" with resurrection of my two Mercedes.
You are better off looking for a "Ready to Drive" well maintained Mercedes than to try and resurrect one your self. I see very nice examples of these for 1500-2000 all the time. (A fraction of what I have spent on the interior restoration of my 280 alone ) I would get a 123 body if you prefer a diesel. They in my opinion are proven the finest, most affordable Mercedes diesel to own.
Regards,
Bryan

The ability to evaluate a car that one has never been seen before, to the point of naming the parts that must be replaced is most impressive!

After my son went off to college, his 240D sat in the weather for a year and a half. I put a battery in it, it started immediately. I changed oil, bled the brakes, replaced the fuel and air filters and did a few other things that needed to be done before it was stored, such as a new windshield and stereo speakers. I began immediately driving the car on my daily 180 mile round trip commute. It purred like a kitten for several months before the engine let go. I'm convinced that the engine problem had nothing to do with the cars storage, after all it was several months and about 20,000 miles later.

The two things that I had going for me that made this different from what you are thinking about are; I knew the condition of the car as of the time it was stored, and it is a 123 car.

Unless you know the condition of the car prior to it's storage, and I don't mean taking a used car salesman's word for it, I would go forth with caution.

Unless you are hung up on this particular car for some reason, like for instance it's an old family posession, I think you would be far ahead and much happier by seeking out a low mileage, solid 240D. The 240D is MUCH simpler to work on than the five cylinders of the 300D's of any year and much more plentiful with easier parts availability than the 220D.

Good luck,

Good advice all around. I know the family and I know it had the engine rebuilt and several parts replaced shortly before it took a minor collision to passenger side rear. There was nothing at all wrong when parked. Also, there were new tires put on shortly before the accident. They're asking $500. That sounds good to me! No salesmen here, in fact, I've probably been a little pushy myself with the owner and his response was "I will not sell this to you if it is not still in good condition so it meets my driving needs.
Keep the info coming guys! I'm getting an education in MB and diesel engines. Thanks, Debi

Okay, I'll play the other side here.

If you're not afraid to get grease under your fingernails, turn some wrenches, and lay out a little bit of money here and there for parts and tools, then don't be afraid of this car.

As everyone else has been stated, there are definitely some things to deal with if it's been sitting for a while, but many of them are things that I (personally) would do for any newly purchased used car. Change the brake/clutch fluid, oil, coolant, power steering fluid; new hoses & belts; valve adjustment; maybe new tires; maybe new battery. Most of these things can be accomplished by a novice home mechanic with a simple tool set, a Chilton's or Haynes manual, and a decent amount of ambition & free time. These cars are generally very easy to work on, especially since the diesel doesn't require spark plugs & distributor.

If the engine was recently rebuilt, then it has the potential to have a lot of life left in it. However, costs will add up in a hurry if other people work on it, epsecially doing the simple (but time-consuming) basic maintenance. So, if you're looking for something inexpensive, be prepared to get your hands dirty, because (like the rest of us) you'll be DIY - doing it yourself.

Keep us posted!

- Nathan
'83 240D, 255k miles
'00 New Beetle TDI, 27k miles

Nathan, That is some very sensible advice that I wouldn't have thought of and I have no problem getting my hands dirty and being a DIY-er.
Question: should I flush the radiator to remove any potential sludge problems? Can I tell by another means whether flushing is needed?
What oil would you recommend? I'm seeing good reviews on the synthetics... brands? WEIGHT? I have never figured out what weight oil, detergent or non-detergent, etc...
Is brake fluid also clutch fluid in same resouvoir or two separate compartments?
That's a lot of questions, I know but you guys are great info sharers. Thank you very much - debi

Yes, tomorrow is the day. I'm quite excited and optimistic. I'll post as soon as I return.
You've added some great points, especially about changing the filters!
Thank you. debi

On radiator & coolant:
If you're changing the coolant anyway (which is a good idea for a newly purchased used car of any type, see all the above posts) then at least go for a can of radiator flush to help remove any scale or rust or grunge or whatever that's in the radiator and other coolant passages. For a couple of bucks you get a can of stuff: add it to the coolant through the radiator cap, run the engine for a bit, then drain it. Refill with a mixture of antifreeze and water. Your choice of antifreeze depends on who you like to listen to; people will swear by all sorts of different stuff. I use 50/50 of the green stuff (ethylene glycol) and water. You could remove the radiator and have it professionally serviced, but I'd save that for the future when you decide you have cooling problems. Yes, everyone has cooling problems sooner or later, it happens to the best and worst of us.

On oil:
Heh heh. Perhaps the most over-debated topic on this forum, oil. Consult the owner's manual, if the car still has it. It'll probably recommend two different types, depending on your ambient temperature. THE FOLLOWING IS MY OPINION (and you know what they say about opinions): I personally use Castrol 20W50, since I live in a hot climate. If you're in a cold climate, you might choose a lighter weight, such as 10W40. As TXBill mentioned, synthetic probably isn't necessary. Perhaps ask the current owner what he/she uses, then just continue to use that. In my opinion, changing the oil regularly (every 3000 miles) is more important than pulling your hair out deciding between 20W50 versus 10W40.

On brake/clutch fluid:
I assume it's manual transmission, since you're asking about clutch fluid. The brake & clutch use the same type of fluid (DOT3 or DOT4 brake fluid). In my car (240D) there are two separate compartments in the same reservoir. In any case, you MUST change the brake fluid if the car has been sitting for a long time! Brake fluid will absorb moisture from the air, which changes its properties and may significantly affect your braking performance. It's generally a good idea to change brake fluid once a year, and make sure the system is closed properly otherwise (i.e. a tight-fitting cap on the fluid reservoir, etc).

On power steering fluid:
Power steering fluid is an easy change, approximately the same as changing motor oil. A little plug on the bottom of the steering gearbox opens up to drain the fluid, then you simply refill from the top of the power steering pump. If you change the power steering fluid once, you probably won't have to worry about it again for a long time. Worst case scenario, at least check the fluid level (just look in the top of the pump to see) and top it off if necessary.

Other stuff:
Like TXBill said, hoses are a subjective check to see if they need replacing. If they look OK they're probably OK. Haynes/Chilton's will have signs to look for on deteriorating hoses.

Belts are another subjective thing. My opinion: change them every few years or if you're doing other major work on the engine. Losing a belt won't stop the engine, at least on my 240D. If, god forbid, a belt breaks, you'll just have to drive without that component (power steering, alternator, or A/C compressor) until you can put on a new belt. I drove around for three days without an alternator while having it rebuilt.. By the third day I had to get a jump-start to get going, then didn't have lights or radio once I was on the road, but the diesel engine doesn't care if you have electrical power or not. Anyway, I digress.

Unless you have record of the last time the valves were adjusted, a valve adjustment is a good idea. Then, every 10,000 miles. It's a pretty easy job if you have the right tools. If the valves aren't adjusted perfectly, the engine wil still run. Properly adjusted valves will give better performance - that is, less black smoke and more power.

Air filter and fuel filter(s) - perhaps the easiest maintenance you can do.

I can't think of anything else right now. That's all I would do initially if it were me. Of course, there may be other things that you'd notice .. new tires if they're bald or obviously deteriorated, new battery if it won't hold a charge, etc.. but those all depend on the condition of what's on the car now.

- Nathan
'83 240D, 255k miles
'00 New Beetle TDI, 27k miles

Fuel and fuel system. Is the tank full? The fuel filters need changing regardless, and the tank, if it was not parked full with a fuel stabilizer in it will need an algaecide to kill off the growth that occurs in diesel fuel when left to add condensation to the mix. You see, algae can and will grow in diesel fuel, given any moisture to help sustain it. A fuel tank with any air space in it will allow condensation to form which will result in water accumulating in the fuel tank. I would investigate a biocide and fuel stabilizer from a local boat shop or marine supply. It should be still useable, but in a worst-case senario, you should be prepared to completely drain the tank if necessary, clear the filter in the tank, and possibly even have the tank steam-cleaned to remove any excess algae that may be there. Even under ideal conditions, you may find water in the tank, which will be at the bottom of the tank, with the fuel sitting on top of the water. After proper treatments and cleaning, the addition of a diesel fuel conditioner like Redline's "DFC" or "85+" would help to clear out the cobwebs in the fuel system, pump, injectors and so forth as well.

I will assume that you will need a new battery. The new battery needs to be the proper size and cranking amps for your "new" diesel. I suggest an Interstate.

http://www.interstatebatteries.com/estore/default.asp

Definately flush the cooling system. Just the fact that it's been sitting means that the corrosion inhibitor package in the antifreeze has become usless. The best bet is to use the Mercedes Cooling System Degreaser Part # - 001-986-21-71 and then the Mercedes Lemon Acid Citrus Flush Part # - 000-989-10-25 . Do not use just any old "green coolant". Sorry TXBill, whom I respect on most subjects, but this type of phosphate corrosion inhibitor antifreeze is not good for diesel engines. Use an extended change interval antifreeze, preferably the Mercedes Antifreeze part # - Q 1 03 0002, but at the very least use an "orange" or "amber" colored one. The cost between the standard product and the extended life one is "comparatively" high, but between Havoline, Peak, Prestone, Valvoline and Mercedes the price is comparable at about $11 a gallon. Believe me, it's worth it in the long run.

Timing chain and tensioner. This is critical on diesel engines. When were they last replaced? Over 80K miles? Have them changed. When they go, the limited clearance between the valves and pistons can cause catastrophic results. Add the valve adjustment if it hasn't been done in 15K miles.

Engine oil. Use any diesel engine approved oil with a CF or better rating. CG & CH are better for newer diesels, but a CF rating is fine for an older diesel like this one. Larry Bible would most likely recommend his favorite, Chevron DELO 400. You could use Mobil 1 synthetic 15W50 because it meets the CF rating, and would be a higher detergent oil. That means what it sounds like it does, it will clean your engine more thoroughly than the standard oils like the DELO. That may be better for you at this point. And try to find a good filter like a Mahle, or Mann. But initially, even a FRAM is ok for now.

Glow Plugs. This car like all diesel Mercedes' of it age need glow plugs to start it. The glow plug warms the air in the prechamber to assist in igniting the diesel fuel. You ned to know the differences between a spark-ignited gasoline engine, and a compression-ignition diesel. The gasoline engine by using gasoline as a fuel uses an electronic (or electrical) spark to ignite the fuel. Gasoline is more volatile than diesel fuel, and has a lower "flash point" meaning that it ignites at lower temperatures. It can be ignited by a spark at very low temperature, where diesel has a higher "flash point" and lower volatility than gasoline, so it is ideal for this type of ignition system, which uses a simple principle of physics to ignite the fuel. You see, when atmospheric air is compressed, the molecules have less space to exist in, so they produce more friction by their movement, and consequently, produce heat, which is used in this instance to ignite the diesel fuel. The glow plugs assist by prewarming the air prior to compression, and thereby cause a more efficient combustion. So make sure they are all working.

Finally, you have been getting advice from the cream of the DIY crop here at MercedesShop. These guys really know their stuff, and have your best interests at heart. I am just adding to it to cover what they may have overlooked, but my experience with Mercedes diesels is in no way comparable to some of these guys...

So good luck, we'll all be here to help when and if you need us...


[Edited by longston on 07-20-2001 at 01:56 AM]

__________________

Scott Longston
Northern California Wine Country...
"Turbos whistle, grapes wine..."

Debi, Go For It!

Buy a manual at an auto parts store, like a Chilton's or Haynes, study over the tune up section, and take each job one at a time. Get some tools if you don't already have them, and have the confidence to at least try each new adventure, it's easy! Everyone has to start somewhere!

But most of all, have fun! There is a reason why this forum has so many members...doing it yourself, or knowing what's being done to your car by someone else gives you control over your life and peace of mind in the driving world!

Patsy, '79 300SD

For $500, hell yeah - buy it! And Larry, I didn't mean to sound uppity about naming parts to be replaced without looking at the car, but when someone right off the bat says the don't know much about cars, I prefer to err on the side of caution lest they get themselves into a money pit. And unfortunately, up here in upstate NY where cars are almost completely destroyed and ready for the junkyard after 13 winters of road salt, people do not maintain their cars simply because the are not going to last no matter what you do (outside of storing it in the winter). The car starts to rust and people take the attitude like "screw it, its a rotted piece of junk anyway" and the maintanence stops there. Thus you have one frightening used car market!

Greg

It will probably be hard to come up with a manual which specifically covers the 220D nowadays. I would get the Haynes manual for the 123 Series Diesels. It will be close enough to get you pointed in the right direction on most of the DIY projects.
Regarding oil, 220D's weren't that easy to get started in cold weather when they were new. It gets tougher as they get older. In the summer, 15w40 is fine. When it gets below about 20, you will need all the help you can get. You will want to use 10w30 or 10w40. That's where it gets interesting. The oil specifications in the owners manual were written 30 years ago, which was before 15w40 universal oils came into common usage. The book will lean towards 10w30 or 10w40, probably about CD or CF rated. Nowadays, that is pretty hard to find. If using oil which is not specifically diesel rated, I would advise to change it more frequently. (And I think the recommended oil change interval was only 2500 or 3000 anyway).
One other thing I would do is get it on the lube rack. These things had a bunch of grease fittings that the newer models don't have. (I think the chassis lube interval was 12000 or 15000).
More power to you if you can keep this old car on the road. Historically, the 220D was the first MB diesel car to sell in big numbers. To me that makes it a historically significant model, although the "collectors" tend to look down their noses at all the diesels.
I would love to have an old diesel with a manual transmission and a big knob in the middle of the dashboard, but good ones are getting really scarce. Good luck with your project.

__________________
Palangi

2004 C240 Wagon 203.261 Baby Benz
2008 ML320 CDI Highway Cruiser
2006 Toyota Prius, Saving the Planet @ 48 mpg
2000 F-150, Destroying the Planet @ 20 mpg



TRUMP .......... WHITEHOUSE
HILLARY .........JAILHOUSE
BERNIE .......... NUTHOUSE
0BAMA .......... OUTHOUSE

I think it counts a lot where the car has been sitting for the last two years , warm dry climate? or a hot summer six months of rain climate like we have here in Oregon not good.
Cars both gas and diesel age fast when sitting undriven in North West.
William Rogers.........

All,
You've all been very kind with all the info and when I can absorb it I'll be able to own and drive this MBD with pride and confidence.
I went yesterday to see the car... very excited... and was not disappointed even though the car did not start. It will. The starter had a problem and the current owner is very kind and wants to get it running before he sells it to me. I will keep ya'll informed.
Thank you all for your generous support with information I need and nowhere else could I have gotten such excellent support.
Please, keep the knowledge coming.
I will need it as I'll probably get the car next week or so.
Sincerely, debi