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#1
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I've Just About Had It! (LONG, RANT)
I bought my 300td in November ’06, with 312,000 miles on the clock. I knew most non-automotive-enthusiast-types would consider that high, but I’ve got 320K and 340K on my two BMWs, and since W123s have a reputation for being rock-solid, I didn’t give much thought to the mileage. I also knew that MBs have certain peculiarities or quirks, which I thought I could deal with or work around. The car was dirty, but straight, and had the 3rd row seat and still had its cross-bars and original owner’s manual and MB map.
You know what? The 28 MPG and overall utility I’ve been getting out of my ’84 300td in the 14 months I’ve owned it are pretty much negated by the overall effort and PITA this damned vehicle is. Before eviscerating me for being a heretic, hear me out, and if you haven’t taken on the tasks I’ve done, don’t bother telling me how easy you think they are. I’ve rebuilt multiple engines, differentials, transmissions (auto and manual), brake systems, and other various things on multiple cars, but none have come close to being the PITA this 300td has been. Since obtaining the car, the incomplete list of what I am doing or have done: 1) Adjusted the valves and installed a new valve cover gasket. That was the first thing to do, and it was easy. All I had to do was buy the 27mm socket – I didn’t need to buy or make any special wrenches. This was no big deal at all. I thought this was a good omen for working on the car. Little did I know! 2) Completely rebuilt the brakes, except for the master cylinder. I rebuilt three calipers, bought one rebuilt one, and installed four new rotors and four new sets of pads. The brakes have been power bled twice, using ATE Typ 200. This was mostly no big deal, but MB’s decision to bolt the front rotors on from the rear of the hub (and thus requiring you to repack the bearings) is silly. PITA #1. Yeah, older American cars required the same deal with the bearings, but they had an excuse, lame as it might be – the rotor and hub were one piece. 3) Installed new front wheel bearings. At least GM has cast-in notches so the drift has areas to catch the race and drive it out, but thanks to MB’s design of the hub, hammering out the inner drift with a race was a PITA as the race only hangs out about 1mm. PITA #2. Does the leaking grease that makes the Bundts extra-dirty count as a PITA? 4) Installed new front sway bar bushings. Thanks to MB’s design, replacing the driver’s side bushing takes hours instead of minutes. PITA #3 5) Installed all new seals on the transmission, with the exception of the shifter and input shafts. It seems that my transmission has o-rings that neither Fastlane nor MB shows to exist, so I had to search the four corners of the earth or splice my own. PITA #4 6) Installed a new Bowden cable. PITA #5 7) Installed a new oil filter housing gasket. PITA #6 8) Diagnosed and fixed all the locks. PITA #7 9) Diagnosed and fixed the HVAC system. PITA #8. I will say, though, that once fixed, the system works extremely well. I just wish I could control it manually instead of being at the mercy of what the rudimentary brain decides is the best air flow pattern. 10) Fixed two inoperative power windows, one with sheared rivets and one with a bent motor frame (which every W123 I’ve ever seen in the yard exhibited). Semi-PITA #9. At least the motors work, but the shearing and bending is annoying. 11) Installed a new oil pan gasket. Meh. This was no harder than other cars, but was messy due to the diesel oil. 12) Cobbled together one good rear wiper assembly from multiple broken assemblies. Apparently, every wagon rear wiper assembly exhibits loose screws and/or some broken parts. 13) Replaced both rear door checks. 14) Installed a new HVAC case drain. PITA #10 15) Installed a new Blaupunkt MP36 and speakers, completely re-wiring the system. I didn’t “need” to do this, so I don’t hold this against the car. 16) Installed 7” H4 hi/lo headlights and 5.75” hi lights. I didn’t “need” to do this, so I don’t hold this against the car. 17) Removed, cleaned, and reinstalled all interior components. This is a labor-intensive, ongoing effort. The previous owner was a slob, with a serious hygiene and diet problem. He also didn’t understand how to shut the hatch, so there was a lot of soot inside. I have hours and hours into this and am still not done. Now that I’ve discovered numerous cracks in the driver’s seat frame, I’ve got welding to do, and am tired of this car being a one-seater until I get it all back together. My cats are going to be mad when I take away "their" sheepskins I bought for the 300td's front seats. It’s my fault for buying a very dirty car. 18) Rebuilt the SLS pump. PITA #11. Contrary to board legend, there are three o-rings, not one, and neither Fastlane nor MB have them – you must either find a used one, buy a rebuilt, or buy a new one. After going through and testing nearly three dozen o-rings, I’ve perfected a set that work great, with no leaks whatsoever. If I ever get around to it, I’ll sell these as a kit. The non-availabilty of these parts is PITA #12. 19) Added a 3rd brake light, using a GM LED unit from a truck. Winmutt said “It looks as if it was made for the car.” PITA #13, only because of the Cosmolene in the frame and having to work through the hinge area and wire it to the brake lights. Yeah, this wasn’t something I had to do, but the brake lights suck on this car. 20) Not the last, but the lead up to the last PITA – rebuilding the front suspension. In mid-December, I decided to replace the lower control arm bushings, thrust rod-to-control arm bushings, and lower ball joints, since all exhibited signs of serious wear. Of course, to do this, you need an MB factory spring compressor – PITA #14. Thankfully, a local friend lent me one. I pressed in the new bushings with a hydraulic press – no problem. To R&R the lower ball joint, you have to remove the spindle, which is sort of a PITA by itself, but that means you also have to remove the brakes, which makes this PITA #15. Now, to remove the lower ball joint, you can use an impact gun, but the “alcove” the ball joint sits in means that you have to use either a factory or some other specialized tool – PITA #16. I had to wait 18 hours until I could rent a specialized press – PITA #17. NOW, THE PITA THAT CAUSED ME TO WRITE THIS RANT… 21) While rebuilding the suspension as per #20 above, I discovered the outer tie rods were bad. I obtained the tie rods earlier this week and just this evening played shuffle-the-cars to get the 300td in the garage so I could get them in. I have a tie rod popper that works on my ’57 Chevy, both my BMWs, and worked on my Porsche 914, Chevy G30-based motorhome, AMC Eagle, an ex’s Honda Accord, and a neighbor’s Nissan truck. Well, surprise, surprise – it doesn’t work on a W123! PITA #18! Why, why, why do so many things have to be PITAs and/or require specialized tools? The straw is just about to hit the camel’s back. I’ve given this car more TLC than it’s had in the last fifteen years, but I’ve just about had it. I’m sick of the specialized tools and R&Ring things that shouldn’t be R&Red to get to other things. I’m sick of the leaks which have made my driveway look like a Dalmatian and keep popping up like I’m playing Whack-A-Leak. Too bad for me that I’m a picky engineer-gearhead who wants to fix everything, but good for the next owner who’s going to get a car that’s pretty much been wrung out. By itself, this tie rod issue would not be a big deal, but this is the proverbial straw. I’m torn by frustration and the desire not to let a mechanical object “beat” me. The tie rods are the last bit of decorative icing on a sooty cake recipe. Maybe I can stir the batter with the new-CV-joint style axle I have to install to match the other. Yay! I just don't get it -- why do Y'all love these cars so much? Are the benefits really worth the cost in frustration? Thanks in advance for explaining to me why these cars are loved so much! -Shawn |
#2
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Quote:
The short answer: yes The long answer: yes You bought a car whos mantenience history was not known with over 300,000 miles on it. You took a risk and got burned. IMHO you should stay the course and finish fixing up the car, it counds to me like there isnt much left that can brake. |
#3
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I certainly understand your frustration after reading the thread. It sounds like you inherited a neglected vehicle and thus alot of work to get it back into good working order. I would guess that most of us who DIY and enjoy our MB deisels have not had to deal with as many issues as you have.
Hang in there...I think you will really enjoy the old girl once you bring her back to form. |
#4
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Yikes!! 99 percent of what you're writing, I have no idea how to do! And maybe that's a good thing too, cos ignorance is bliss. The fact is, Shawn, maybe its because you know so much, that its causing you so much grief!
![]() Me, I'm the guy who accidentally pulled out a vacuum tube on the thingamajig on top of the valve cover and didn't even know where to put it back. One frantic phone call to Benslover fixed that problem! All I know is she starts up in the morning and I hope she shuts off when I turn the key ![]() ![]()
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1987 300TD 1984 300D 755,000 KM and going strong ![]() BC Canada |
#5
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You've done just about everything there is to do. It would be silly to sell it now that it's all sorted out. But if you do want to get rid of it ... dibs!
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'98 E300 turbodiesel |
#6
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dont you hang out on TDIClub too?
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#7
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To Reiterate...
Maybe all of that is way too long to take in and my point was lost in all the details. I never thought that a mostly-undocumented, 23-year-old car with 300K+ miles would need little to no work. It's not that it needed so much work, it's that so much of that work was a PITA by design. Yeah, it seems as if there's not much left that needs to be fixed, but I'm sure that whatever is left will be PITA-laden.
Last edited by Shawn D.; 01-06-2008 at 12:49 AM. |
#8
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Yeah, you've been worn down by it all. If you can leave the car alone, for a while, until your anger and frustration with it, subsides. I've had cars like that and once I finally finished with what I wanted to do, I never wanted anything to do with them again, and sold them. This sounds like the same thing. Life's too short. Find one that will give you some joy...Good Luck.
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SONNY was right...Nobody Cares. Calogero, from the movie, "A BRONX TALE." |
#9
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I could probably assemble a list of rants close to yours but cutting and pasting from my previous posts over the years. There are cars out there that are far worse in trying to perform even some of the most mundane of repairs, GM's included. I've owned a few of them myself.
I give it a break if it gets to me too much. If giving it a break doesn't help, then I get rid of the beast. I have only gotten rid of one Mercedes that way and it wasn't a 123. You've done too much work to get rid of that car now. Also the things you've done won't require attention for along time. Oh BTW, I've done the tie rods without using any special tools to remove them. I've used a couple of hammers to break them loose. I hold one hammer on one side of the knuckle and 180 degrees on the other side I whack the knuckle with other hammer. A few good whacks and it separates very easily. Works on most cars if you have enough room.
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DJ 84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012 ![]() |
#10
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you buy a 20+ year old car, you get 20+ years worth of headaches at once
for example.. on the way home tonight the rear defroster fuse blew.. it seems to be that it was the original one or fairly old... stuff happens |
#11
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Either you had an easy time with the oil cooler lines or PITA #19 is in on deck
![]() I agree that there are lots of things that could have been designed to be easier to service. It's quite frustrating considering how long these cars last. There is something of a serviceability sweet spot from the mid-80s to the mid-90s with simpler yet still serviceable designs. Then things got electronic and beyond the abilities of classic shade tree mechanics. Case in point, the W140 is a beast, but I can work on the front suspension even if I can't press my weight. You can do most of the work sitting rather than on your back. And who doesn't like being able to pop off W124 rotors without having to set bearing play? Sixto 87 300D |
#12
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Hey, you're right, those dumbasses didn't know what they were doing when they engineered this car.
![]() I was honestly thinking of buying a TD wagon - sometime in the future, but I don't think I could hack it (pun intended). |
#13
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Hey I feel your pain. My '83 with supposedly low miles has been a basketcase when I got it a few years ago. My wife used to refer it as "the Lemon". The PO neglected it badly, but luckly the interior is in great shape. Today it has a '84 engine, new (used) diff, new Axles, total rebuilt suspension including new (used) box, new shocks, new brakes, updated parallel flow A/C, new (used) Climate control, new stereo system and a Greasecar Kit. Not to mention what I am going to do to it... Change out the dash, replace my dented fender (some one hit me while I wasn't around), paint the car, replace the rear window, replace the front window seals, tint the windows, install an intercooler, install an '85 torque converter, install a new B2 piston, get a 2.88 diff, and get the cruise control working. (there might be more to this list.. But I can't think of it right now)
Yes.. All this is a PITA. But still at the end of the day, I still love this car! BTW - Yes the standard ball joint removal tool is too wide for it to fit properly. As stated earlier, a big hammer works really well.
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1983 123.133 California - GreaseCar Veg System ![]() |
#14
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I sent a PM, but for the forum...I probably overspent buying my SDL, but, now, I've had it for two years and close to 50K miles. No collision insurance, probably at least 27MPG, no monthly car note, and I could sell it for what I bought it for. But I won't...Great on the road, and very dependable. Since I also use Bio-Diesel, the actual mileage cost are quite small. I also know the condition of most of the running gear now, and a lot of it has been replaced. I look to get to 500K with minimal expense......
I could not do that with a new car, especially considering all the real expenses involved. Hold your head up.......You drive a Mercedes !!! ![]()
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87 300SDL - 215K Miles !! 99 F-350CC Dually PSD - 190K 86 300SDL - 189K All on B-100 |
#15
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I hear you. In fact if you search threw my post you will see points were i have almost given up as well. I haven't done almost everything you have, but my car came from the original own. However there were many things i had to do. So far my records show that i have put around 2400$ into this car just in parts. (gotta pretty good grasp on mechanics)
While these cars are simple, it seems as though every system in the car is made so that if it were to fail, it has sort of a "back up system" until you can get it fixed. This usually makes fixing the original problem much harder. One this i must say is that getting an alignment after putting the new tie rods on is more of a PITA. since there is a special tool or what not to align these cars, every place i took it to couldn't align it correctly and it would either pull to the right or left hard, depending on which way i had just turned. Finally went to the dealer. In my opinion, i would listen to these guys, just take a step back and let it sit for a while. i have had to do that many of times. (especially this spring when my sunroof mech. broke, but i eventually got it replaced ) Hang in there
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1983 Euro 240D 277K 2016 Mazda 6 Coming Soon, 2013 Mercedes E350 Bluetec Formers: 2012- Mazda 3 2007 Outlander- complete pile 1995 E300 Diesel 208K 2007 VW Passat 2.0T ![]() 2003 Jaguar X-type 3.0 Sport Sold 04/11 w/88K 2009 Lexus RX350 9061 miles. Sold 04/09 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS:Totaled Sept.,09 @ 24,000 2003 Infiniti I35 58K Sold 1984 300 turbo diesel 222K |
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