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  #1  
Old 01-28-2008, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caduceus View Post
And my 82 300d started! yay...off to work. -31c in calgary but -49 with windchill. of course not even my wipers are working but it started!
Fortunately for you, wind-chill doesn’t affect mechanical objects, just your cold skin. I would start to be concerned about the fuel gelling though.
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  #2  
Old 01-28-2008, 11:04 AM
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Well I consider my car a somebody and maybe it DOES care about wind chill , anyways thanks for the tip
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  #3  
Old 01-28-2008, 11:12 AM
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I couldn't even have walked out to my car in temps that cold, so it wouldn't have mattered it the car started or not!
Sounds like you have a very healthy diesel Mercedes.
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  #4  
Old 01-28-2008, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Bio300TDTdriver View Post
Fortunately for you, wind-chill doesn’t affect mechanical objects, just your cold skin. I would start to be concerned about the fuel gelling though.
I've seen -25.5C on temp sensor this winter. And it has registered in the -20sC more than a few times. Right now we are in a 'heat wave'. It is 43F out. Before this, I think we had been below freezing for close to a month. But it won't last. Tomorrow has a low of -16F and Wednesday a high of -1F forecasted.

BTW, wind chill is the biggest load of bs ever. Say it is the temperatures that were stated above. -31C and -49C with the windchill. Say I stand butt naked outside. There is NO POSSIBLE way my body could ever cool past -31C down to the wind chill 'temperature' of -49C. You can't get colder than the air temperature. It can FEEL more bitter with the wind, but all that needs to be said is, it is such and such temperature and WINDY...not that the wind chill is such and such.

Wind chill was created by the media (TV meteorologists) for shock value. Typical news people.
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  #5  
Old 01-28-2008, 01:35 PM
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Wow if it got that cold here I wouldn't be outside trying to start the car, I'd be looking at property in a warmer area!
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  #6  
Old 01-28-2008, 02:02 PM
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No it wasn't the media this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graplr View Post
I've seen -25.5C on temp sensor this winter. And it has registered in the -20sC more than a few times. Right now we are in a 'heat wave'. It is 43F out. Before this, I think we had been below freezing for close to a month. But it won't last. Tomorrow has a low of -16F and Wednesday a high of -1F forecasted.

BTW, wind chill is the biggest load of bs ever. Say it is the temperatures that were stated above. -31C and -49C with the windchill. Say I stand butt naked outside. There is NO POSSIBLE way my body could ever cool past -31C down to the wind chill 'temperature' of -49C. You can't get colder than the air temperature. It can FEEL more bitter with the wind, but all that needs to be said is, it is such and such temperature and WINDY...not that the wind chill is such and such.

Wind chill was created by the media (TV meteorologists) for shock value. Typical news people.
"The original wind chill formula was derived from experiments conducted in 1939 by Antarctic explorers, Paul Siple and Charles Passel. These hardy scientists measured how long it took for water to freeze in a small plastic cylinder when it was placed outside in the wind. Over the years, the formula was modified somewhat, but remained based on the Antarctic experiments."


This formula was obsolete and in certain circumstances created confusion. Thus in april 2000 Environment Canada held an Internet Workshop [sic] on wind chill for it to be better adapted to reality. Rather than be based on a water cylinder, "the new index is based on a model of how fast a human face loses heat. We chose the face because it is the part of the body most often exposed to severe winter weather, assuming the rest of the body is clothed appropriately for the weather". Reading of the assumptions taken into account for this new index is relevant. Here is an example of these assumptions: "It [the wind chill] uses a calm wind threshold of 4.8 km/h; this value has been obtained by observing the speed at which people walk at intersections."

In case you want to read more: http://ptaff.ca/humidex/?lang=en_CA
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  #7  
Old 01-28-2008, 02:15 PM
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Windchill won't effect the lowest temperature your engine will reach, but it will effect how long it takes for the engine to reach that temperature. It will also effect the temperature at which your block heater keeps the block. The wind will take away the heat produced from the block heater faster than still air would.
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  #8  
Old 01-28-2008, 03:37 PM
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Yeah that is terribly cold. I posted on another thread about my trip back to school recently. I took the train across the country and when we got into North Dakota, the temps were down near -20F. That night it got down to -25. Under -20F, the trains are limited to 65mph due to the risk of broken rails at that temperature. All the sink drains on the cars froze up...a maintenance worker at the station stop in Minot, ND thawed out all the drains with a flare, only to have them freeze up again shortly after we got underway. And the condensation clouds from the diesel exhaust were amazing. The dishwasher drain in the dining car also froze up, so for lunch the next day we were all eating on plastic plates and with plastic cups.

No problems with the diesel locomotives though. If I remember correctly they all have fuel tank heaters to keep the fuel from gelling. And it was a good thing too, since they are what provide the power for heating the whole train.
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  #9  
Old 01-28-2008, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bio300TDTdriver View Post
"The original wind chill formula was derived from experiments conducted in 1939 by Antarctic explorers, Paul Siple and Charles Passel. These hardy scientists measured how long it took for water to freeze in a small plastic cylinder when it was placed outside in the wind. Over the years, the formula was modified somewhat, but remained based on the Antarctic experiments."


This formula was obsolete and in certain circumstances created confusion. Thus in april 2000 Environment Canada held an Internet Workshop [sic] on wind chill for it to be better adapted to reality. Rather than be based on a water cylinder, "the new index is based on a model of how fast a human face loses heat. We chose the face because it is the part of the body most often exposed to severe winter weather, assuming the rest of the body is clothed appropriately for the weather". Reading of the assumptions taken into account for this new index is relevant. Here is an example of these assumptions: "It [the wind chill] uses a calm wind threshold of 4.8 km/h; this value has been obtained by observing the speed at which people walk at intersections."

In case you want to read more: http://ptaff.ca/humidex/?lang=en_CA

Yes, as you stated, THE ORIGINAL WINDCHILL!!

Paul Douglas, a meteorologist for the Twin Cities and big player in the industry was part of the REVAMPING of the original windchill for the newer system. He has stated this several times on his forecasts.

Windchill is bogus. There is NO reason for the numbers other than to shock people. Otherwise not just say, the temp will be -20F and very windy. I can figure out it will feel bitter if it is cold and windy. I don't need some arbitrary number along with the ACTUAL temperature.
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  #10  
Old 01-28-2008, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graplr View Post
Windchill is bogus. There is NO reason for the numbers other than to shock people. Otherwise not just say, the temp will be -20F and very windy. I can figure out it will feel bitter if it is cold and windy. I don't need some arbitrary number along with the ACTUAL temperature.
Clearly, you don't understand what the windchill number represents. The wind causes more heat loss by any object that is warmer than the current ambient air temperature. In the case of an object that's at 98°, the heat loss with wind is significant. Therefore, the windchill number represents the effective temperature that would be equivalent to the the heat loss absent of wind.

Naturally, you can believe what you wish..............
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  #11  
Old 01-28-2008, 08:56 PM
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Heatwave

Let's flip this around ... I agree w/ Graplr that windchill is simply for shock value.

My reason, when it's 90 out and we have a stiff breeze, do the talkingheads say - "The breeze will cool us down, and you'll be comfortable outside" OR do they say "This is the 19th day of this oppressive and dangerous heat wave"?

I can assure you of one thing ... If I did as poorly with my assessments at work as the weather dorks do with theirs ... I'd be fired. Think about it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graplr View Post
Yes, as you stated, THE ORIGINAL WINDCHILL!!

Paul Douglas, a meteorologist for the Twin Cities and big player in the industry was part of the REVAMPING of the original windchill for the newer system. He has stated this several times on his forecasts.

Windchill is bogus. There is NO reason for the numbers other than to shock people. Otherwise not just say, the temp will be -20F and very windy. I can figure out it will feel bitter if it is cold and windy. I don't need some arbitrary number along with the ACTUAL temperature.
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  #12  
Old 01-28-2008, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by TripWagner View Post
Let's flip this around ... I agree w/ Graplr that windchill is simply for shock value.
Whether it's "bogus" or whether it is factual has nothing to do with the intentions of the forecaster.

The forecaster may use wind chill for shock value. However, this does not diminish the fact that a warmer object will cool faster in the presence of convection.
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  #13  
Old 01-28-2008, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
Whether it's "bogus" or whether it is factual has nothing to do with the intentions of the forecaster.

The forecaster may use wind chill for shock value. However, this does not diminish the fact that a warmer object will cool faster in the presence of convection.
I'm not sure, but I believe you are needlessly waisting the skin on the ends of your fingers. I don't think any amount of proof will convince them.

Chris
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  #14  
Old 01-29-2008, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
Clearly, you don't understand what the windchill number represents. The wind causes more heat loss by any object that is warmer than the current ambient air temperature. In the case of an object that's at 98°, the heat loss with wind is significant. Therefore, the windchill number represents the effective temperature that would be equivalent to the the heat loss absent of wind.

Naturally, you can believe what you wish..............


However, this does not diminish the fact that a warmer object will cool faster in the presence of convection.
Brian,
I NEVER said ANYTHING about the rate of cooling. I talked about the air temperature itself which is what forecasters always associate wind chill with.

It sure will cool FASTER, but I can figure that out myself if the wind is blowing. I don't need some arbitrary number from a forecaster.

When I listen to the forecasters, they say for example "The temperature outside is 4F, but it FEELS like -15F. This is impossible. There is absolutely NO WAY it can be -15F if the air temperature is 4F!! The coldest possible temperature if the air is 4F is 4F!!!

They NEVER say the windchill will cause you to cool down faster, they say it FEELS like -15F, which is impossible.

Naturally, this is a fact, not me believing anything!

By the way, I am a science teacher. Specifically Earth Science which includes the area of meteorology.
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