actually I think the guy i quoted said that, I was just pointing out that no marque is flawless, if the american cars of the 80's were 40-50K then it would be a fair comparison, but I think they were almost an order of magnitude less expensive so I would expect to see this reflected in longevity and any other measuring point. To be honest for a 40K car mine has some pretty cheap plastic parts too.

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1982 300CD Turbo (Otis, "ups & downs") parts for sale
2003 TJ with Hemi (to go anywhere, quickly) sold
2001 Excursion Powerstroke (to go dependably)
1970 Mustang 428SCJ (to go fast)
1962 Corvette LS1 (to go in style)
2001 Schwinn Grape Krate 10spd (if all else fails)

Although the 3.5 is a rodbender it is nothing in the junk department like such GM classics as:
1. The vega aluminum motor which eventually was replaced with the ancient design Iron Duke.
2. The poorly executed porsche/ vw clone corvair motor which would blow oil fumes into the passenger compartment even when less than one year old.
3. Various Mouse motors which periodically get batches of cams which round off lobes prematurely.
4. Bottom ends on chevy motors which rattle at 100k miles.
5. the Buick V6 which cracked heads back in the seventies.
6. don't even get me started on the CRAP diesels GM built.

Mercedes has had only one bad engine in the last fifty years.

Other mfgrs:
1. BMW cracked heads for no reason on the early sixes in the seventies.
2. Hondas cracked heads in the seventies.
3. Mazdas cracked heads in the eighties.
4. Nissans cracked heads in the eighties.
5. Ford diesels cracked main bearings on 6.9 and 7.4 engines.

Mercedes built an excellent car. I believe they still do from a mechanical and safety standpoint. Unfortunately they are nothing special when it comes to electronic gizmos and modern cars have more than their share of that CRAP.

Tom W

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I believe this is a generally true statement.

Now just to play devil's advocate, I would like to point out a few examples of excellent American vehicles:

1. My mom's '63 Dodge Dart had 280,000 miles on the original engine when my dad drove it to the junkyard. It was junked partly because it was burning oil at a prodigious rate (could have been fixed with a relatively inexpensive rebuild) but mostly because it had spent its entire life in PA and NJ and had the associated corrosion issues, to which Mercedes of the era were by no means immune. This sort of longevity was fairly common for the 225 Slant Six.

2. The Ford Panther platform (Crown Vic, Mercury Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car). I only drove mine to 156,00 miles before I let it go. The guy I sold it to is still driving it. I didn't really have problems with it until I started using it to commute at 50-70 mph on a dirt/rock/mud road to work every day. I could have dealt with some repairs and kept it going much longer, but gas was getting over $2/gal, and I really wanted a diesel. I've heard of many less-abused examples in livery service making it to 300,000 miles or more, and one beyond 500,000.

3. Full-size diesel pickups, of which I'd say the 12v and early 24v Dodge Cummins were the best examples, though even weak-suck 6.2 and 6.5 GM's have been known to last over 300k. Cummins and Powerstrokes with over 500,000 are not unheard of. The Duramax may have as much longevity potential, but they haven't been around long enough for us to know yet.

4. Ford F150 with the 300 straight six aka 4.9L in later years. These have similar longevity to a 225 Slant Six (or an OM617 for that matter). Not much power, but plenty of torque and good on gas. I'd still consider a 2wd F150 5 spd with the 300.

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Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 401,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 26,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.
99 Mazda Miata 183,xxx miles.

Even though both of my Benzes are 20+ years old, it makes me proud to read about their quality improving. Car and driver ranked them 5th in initial quality, a HUGE improvement. Let's hope this reflects long term quality as well.

I also find it amazing that Porsche is firmly at #1. Its probably because so few are driven daily, but still quite impressive.

An S550 in 2038? They'll still be around; if they led a low mileage, pampered life. They will only be Trailer Queens. Same goes for Escalades, Corvettes, and just about any other new car... The auto restoration business's future is questionable.

My w123 in 2038: if I continue to pamper her and drive an average of 7,500 miles a year, she'll be approaching 393k. That's a normal occurrence with us.

What will Mercedesshop be like in 2038???

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1985 500SL Euro w/ AMG bits 130k
1984 300SD Turbodiesel 192k
1980 240D Stick China 188k
2001 CLK55 AMG 101k
2007 S600 Biturbo 149k Overheated Project, IT'S ALIVE!!!

i think the 65-70 mustang
and the chevy 2 (chevy nova) are both very worthy cars that are atleast comperable to a mercedes 123 of the same era or newer.

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Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?

As long as they would add one additional commandment for you to keep thy religion to thyself.
George Carlin (Wonder where he is now..)

1981 240d (engine donor 1983 240d) recently rebuilt engine hurray! - No more.. fought a tree and the tree won.

pearl black 1983 240d 4speed (Converted!@$$%) atleast the tranny was rebuilt.

I don't give a **** if the new ones don't last 20 years, I want to make enough so I'm not forced to drive older cars. In 2038 I plan on driving a 2038 or 2037 S class, which will be traded in for a 2039. 2 year leases, never pop the hood once and trade in.

MBshop will probably still be around, probably less diesels though unless MB starts importing a bunch again.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Yep, thats why they all build crap cars nowadays...

But won't you miss the intimate relationship that you forge when you are laying under the car on that cold garage floor?

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1987 300TD 309, xxx 2.8.2014 10,000 mile OCI


Be careful of the toes you step on today, as they may be connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow. anonymous

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter, and those who matter won’t mind.” Dr. Seuss