Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-12-2008, 08:25 PM
Cervan's Avatar
Crazy mechanic.
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: olympia washington
Posts: 1,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by patbob View Post
Changing to DI has been discussed.. you need a new head of your own design. So, $$$ If you do this, then you have a lot of options, and the below doesn't apply unless you want it to.

You''ll need a new cam that opens both intake and exhaust valves simultaneously. You'll need a supercharger so you can raise the intake air pressure to blow the exhaust out for the next cycle. You'll need the IP to pump twice as often.. I think it might work if you can run it at 2X RPM, but I doubt you could substitute a smaller sprocket to accomplish that. You'll use 2X fuel at all RPMs and you'll have to have a manual transmission as I doubt the torque converter & ATF could withstand converting all that extra torque to heat when stopped.

I like your idea of using a supercharger and turbocharger, but the supercharger will be partly pumping the turbocharger, which sounds difficult to control to me. Mightbe easier to let the supercharger change intake air pressure with engine RPM.

If you do this, certainly write back.. success or fail, I'm sure lots of people would be interested
Haha, Yeah it will use fuel, like a fiend it will drink that stuff. But you cant get something out of nothing right? (Thats one thing my father never understood, "Why dont you just bolt a turbo on there and get more power?" ) Anyways, before i start this project im going to finish my little honda project so atleast i have something to drive in the meantime. As for the thought on the supercharger moving the turbo, i was thinking of making a reverse VVT turbo. Closing the vanes at low speeds and opening them at high speeds. Of course there are two ways this can be done, somehow seal the turbo from the intake path at idle and low speeds, and then opening it up to let the turbo build psi. but then again.. if i just put a normal turbo infront of the supercharger.. maybie that will help it abit because it will allways be spinning (Maybie not very fast) But maybie it will account for the lost spool up time? and a supercharger is allways spinning because of the crank i dont see how it could hurt anything.

As for the injection pump and valve cam. Ill probibally try to swap the cam sprocket onto the injectionpump, That will make it 1:1 with the crank (Right?) And for the cams.. ill have to either get them machined and then metal added to them to make them what i want. or buy ones casted the way i want. (Yeash sounds costly allready)

The bottom end ill be building as well, ill get the crank microbeeded and knifeedged, the rods shotpeened and the cyilnders overbored .30 over with matching pistions (To get the tolerances perfect) Ill lighten the flywheel (Just taking the casting off of the rear maybie 1 or 2 pounds) Ah forgot, ill add pistion oil coolers (Along with a high pressure oil pump) Throw it back together and pray.

As for the head ill get stainless steel valves and a 6angle valve grind (So i dont burn the valves) Im really taking a chance with the precomb chambers.. im hoping that they dont cause any problems.. Hey forced, where could i find a VVT at?

Oh and the tranny is a stick with a new clutch so i should be good to go. (Reason im wanting to do this so badly is because final ratio went down on this year, meaning i cant hit 75 no matter what >.
__________________
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?

As long as they would add one additional commandment for you to keep thy religion to thyself.
George Carlin (Wonder where he is now..)

1981 240d (engine donor 1983 240d) recently rebuilt engine hurray! - No more.. fought a tree and the tree won.

pearl black 1983 240d 4speed (Converted!@$$%) atleast the tranny was rebuilt.

Last edited by Cervan; 02-12-2008 at 08:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-13-2008, 02:06 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Columbia City Indiana
Posts: 345
I never saw a 2 cycle engine with intake valves. I think the scavenging capability of an intake valve next to an exhaust valve would make this engine run poorly at best.
__________________
1977 300D Lost coolant while someone else was driving
1983 300D Can't run without oil
1985 300SD (gone but not forgotten)
1990 300TE 4matic Sold
1991 Yamaha Venture
1975 Kawsaki 250 triple
1974 Honda 200CL
1951 8N Ford
2008 Wildfire 650C
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-13-2008, 09:00 PM
ZackaryMac's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by MB-Owner-in-ind View Post
I never saw a 2 cycle engine with intake valves. I think the scavenging capability of an intake valve next to an exhaust valve would make this engine run poorly at best.

2 stroke gas engines don't have valves like you are probably thinking (reed, rotary, or the piston itself are the valves), however 2 stroke diesels all do, to the best of my knowledge. As mentioned before, the valves are all exhaust, as the air is brought into the cylinder through "holes", or ports, part way up the cylinder wall. If you've ever seen a chainsaw engine apart, you'd have a good idea what this is similar to.

2 stroke gas use oil in the gas or injected oil for crank/cylinder lube, 2 stroke diesels use engine oil like any other diesel.

2 stroke gas typically are naturally asperated (I have heard of race turbo'ed engines), 2 stroke diesel have to be force inducted (supercharged) to run.

Same name, similar concept, much different excecution.
__________________
1991 GMC Sonoma Ext Cab w/Isuzu diesel (converted March Mar 2003) - sold
1994 S10 Ext Cab w/Isuzu diesel (converted Mar 2008)
1998 Toyota Sienna XLE
B6100HST Kubota CUT DIESEL

1994 S10 with Isuzu diesel and 5spd
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...S15/SigPic.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-13-2008, 10:42 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,925
Cervan, man go take a valium.....or find a large wooden mallet and give yourself a quick whack in the noggin or two.

This is much crazier than the accura engine thing.

The old 671 jimmies were cool sounding motors, they screamed like a v12. Of course back when they were in vogue I did not know what a v12 sounded like but I knew I loved to hear them wind out.

A 371 is out too, the weight of it would totally mash the front end of your benz.'

Just getting a benz running nicely in stock form is quite a task for most of us.

Tom W
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-13-2008, 10:55 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: D.C.
Posts: 487
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZackaryMac View Post
2 stroke diesels all do, to the best of my knowledge.
There are piston-ported 2 stroke diesels. Detroit made one model that didn't have valves... it was a 4cyl, forgot which model. A company called deltahawk is making a piston-ported (no valves) 2 stroke V4 diesel for aircraft. 2 stroke diesels have to be scavenged somehow, some older ones were crankcase scavenged, as well as piston-ported, I believe, but the common method is via supercharger, or in the case of the deltahawk, a turbocharger blowing through a supercharger which gives supercharger performance at low rpm and turbo at high rpm.. I wonder if you couldn't get a high-power 616 up and running for less than you could get into a 603 for.... 603 turbo motors are quite rare...
__________________
99 E300 Turbodiesel 100k
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-14-2008, 11:12 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Columbia City Indiana
Posts: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZackaryMac View Post
2 stroke gas engines don't have valves like you are probably thinking (reed, rotary, or the piston itself are the valves), however 2 stroke diesels all do, to the best of my knowledge. As mentioned before, the valves are all exhaust, as the air is brought into the cylinder through "holes", or ports, part way up the cylinder wall. If you've ever seen a chainsaw engine apart, you'd have a good idea what this is similar to.

2 stroke gas use oil in the gas or injected oil for crank/cylinder lube, 2 stroke diesels use engine oil like any other diesel.

2 stroke gas typically are naturally asperated (I have heard of race turbo'ed engines), 2 stroke diesel have to be force inducted (supercharged) to run.

Same name, similar concept, much different excecution.

I believe that the Detroit diesels have exhaust valves but ports for intake and I haven't ever heard a two stroke diesel with intake valves that had any popularity. The early Detroits were NA.
__________________
1977 300D Lost coolant while someone else was driving
1983 300D Can't run without oil
1985 300SD (gone but not forgotten)
1990 300TE 4matic Sold
1991 Yamaha Venture
1975 Kawsaki 250 triple
1974 Honda 200CL
1951 8N Ford
2008 Wildfire 650C
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-14-2008, 03:12 PM
ForcedInduction
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
You would need alot of excess airflow to clear the cylinder of exhaust since the valves are right next to each other.

The 2-stroke Detroit's, in the right conditions, could run completely without the lower rod caps. In theory anyways, I don't know if they actually tried it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page