I replaced the filters in my '87, took about 3min total cranking to run smooth (no prime).

My low-fuel light doesn't come on until the needle is right on the refill/empty mark, then it takes about 12gallons.

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Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

You might be able to avoid all this battery-killing cranking by hooking up a mityvac to the appropriate fuel line and suck the fuel through the system manually. My fuel system is all re-plumbed for my WVO system, so it's hard to tell you which line you should use, but the line just before the injection pump would at least pull the fuel to that point. Maybe the return line coming out of that banjo fitting on the secondary filter would suck it all the way through? Maybe someone else could chime in here...

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1987 Mercedes 300D ~200K (Greasecar & Biodiesel)
1993 Ford F-250 7.3 IDI diesel 165K (Biodiesel)
1996 Thomas/International Bus with DT466 engine

Well, I did get it started after several rounds on the battery. However, I noticed some fuel bubbling around the base of the injector closest to the back. I've never taken the injectors out so I don't know what the deal is here: do I need a new seal for it? Or do I just need to tighten it up? Or something worse?

Anyway, this PM I ran down to the store in the car ('87 300D turbo) and parked in an awkward hilly spot where the front end of the car was higher than the back. When I got back to the car 15 min later I couldn't start it...it basically had the same symptom as if it were out of fuel but the gauge read half a tank.....anyway, I rolled it back onto the flat and it started right up. Does that make sense to anyone??

Thanks -Harv

that sounds like bad delivery valve seals. it would make sense with everything else you've described so far. I had the exact same problem with my 190 (parking on an uphill slope, etc.) and new delivery valve seals (and crush washers) was the cure.

hope that helps,

dave

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1987 190d turbo, 5-spd conversion -- 146k
1973 280 -- back on the road with a euro m110
1980 300SD -- RIP - Sold for parts (lost battle with rust)

I think I might have the terminology wrong, but the fuel that I'm seeing is coming from the base of one of the injectors (on the top of the engine).

Aren't the injector valves on the top of the injection pump? See image (although this is a different model and year).

I looked at one of the Diesel Giant DIY pages and it didn't show a seal or o-ring on the injectors but it did mention carbon flakes that caused a leak that was fixed after he cleaned them well. Maybe I should pull that injector and clean the housing??

I'm a novice at this stuff, so any help/clarification is greatly appreciated. Thanks -harv

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yup, those are the delivery valves, but they could be leaking air, not fuel, and you wouldn't be able to see it. when the car's on an incline, the air would be drawn into the highest point of the system it could get into, which would be the top of the IP if the valve seals were bad. this would cause is to lose prime.

one thing that tipped me off with mine was once when I couldn't get it started (I live on a hill, so it was happening often), I noticed a little hissing noise after a long period of cranking. I followed the noise to the top of the IP, and then noticed some tiny bubbles popping around the base of the delivery valve (in my case there was a slight fuel leak too). that's what tipped me off.

anyway, good luck, and I hope this helps.

- dave

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1987 190d turbo, 5-spd conversion -- 146k
1973 280 -- back on the road with a euro m110
1980 300SD -- RIP - Sold for parts (lost battle with rust)

Makes sense. But I'll probably take this one at a time tho and fix the visible leak at the injector first.

I'm still not sure what to do about the injector leak tho...do I just need to tighten it? Or do I need to pull it and clean it?

Thanks -Harv

arnoneh,

Take a soda bottle of fuel and insert the input of the fuel pump line into the bottle. This will pump fuel from the bottle into the fuel system. The engine should then start.

Quickly connect the fuel line back to the fuel line from the tank. The engine should keep running.

This trick got me started in a rest stop after I replaced the secondary filter when I had parked with the rear of the car lower than the front. U might also try raising the rear of the car above the front and put more fuel in the tank.

P E H

arnoneh,

Take a soda bottle of fuel and insert the input of the fuel pump line into the bottle. This will pump fuel from the bottle into the fuel system. The engine should then start.

Quickly connect the pump fuel line back to the fuel line from the tank. The engine should keep running.

This trick got me started in a rest stop after I replaced the secondary filter when I had parked with the rear of the car lower than the front. U might also try raising the rear of the car above the front and put more fuel in the tank.

P E H

The engine shouldn't be THAT hard to re-start if run out of fuel. Put fuel in the tank, crank with your foot on the floor, and it should light up. When changing the main spin-on filter, fill it with clean diesel (or Diesel Purge) before re-installing... this will save a huge amount of cranking (it takes forever to fill an empty filter just by cranking). Assuming you have fuel present, next step is to verify the glow plugs are getting voltage. If you have both fuel AND good glow... read below.

My dad had a similar problem with his '87. The filters and plugs were fine. Turned out the oxidation catalyst had plugged. When it is plugged solid, the car WILL NOT START. Easy test - remove the bolt/plug at the exhaust manifold, in the #1 cylinder, and try to start the engine. If it starts, or at least tries to run, when it didn't before... you probably have a plugged exhaust.

__________________
Dave
Boise, ID
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

Woops, missed the last post - sorry. Sounds like you have an air leak in the supply side somewhere, causing the starting problem on a hill, or when the tank isn't full.

The injector leak is either bad return hoses (the little braided ones - replace them if they're old), or the injector body is leaking. There is no seal inside, there are just machined surfaces that are supposed to be perfectly flat, and seal together. You can try and tighten the top half to the bottom, but it's easier done in a bench vise. If the injector is removed, the heat shield must be replaced.




If you're a recent owner of the 1987 300D, you might want to read this arrticle:
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/articles/124.1x3_buying_tips.txt

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Sorry, one more question. To replace the injector valves, I know I need a star shaped bit to removed the securing tabs. But to remove the stub, it looks like it is some sort of serrated or gear-like body....is there a special socket or wrench for that? If so, what's the best way to deal with getting those off?

Also, can I install a manual priming pump somehow as with older models?

Thanks -harv

You are referring to the delivery valves at the injection pump, which need a special serrated socket for removal (see photo below). This socket is available from the dealer for about $35 or so. Unless you have a fuel leak at the top of the injection pump, you don't need this. If you need to change these, you must have the area surgically clean, as NO dirt or dust can enter the fuel system! It helps to remove the intake manifold. A special torque procedure is used... 30Nm, release, 30Nm, release, final torque 30-35Nm... do not overtighten. If you screw it up, you'll know it, because the engine will nail and/or idle poorly afterwards.

No, you cannot retrofit the hand-priming pump. You wouldn't want to, it's notorious for leaking. The 603 engine in your '87 has a high-volume, self-priming pump. If you still have starting problems, you have a leak that needs to be fixed. After the leak is fixed, you won't need to worry about priming anything.

Great. Thanks for the info.

Too bad I keep buying these nearly-one-time use tools but it is still cheaper than taking it to the shop.

-harv

Check the rental list. There's definitely one on there.