Envirosafe and other Hydrocarbon Refrigerants on this board. - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JimmyL · #31 03-09-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdelaurier

I have a QUESTION!

Can anyone show me the exact TEXAS code that prohibits the use of HC's in AUTO's ????

"Stirring of the pot" alert.......

#32 03-09-2009, 09:49 AM

Makes sense to me that if nobody in Texas can sell it, nobody in Texas can buy it and the use of it would not be possible unless you bring your own across state lines for personal, non aviation, use.

R Leo · #33 03-09-2009, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyL

"Stirring of the pot" alert.......

Jimmy, are you still running that 'outlaw' refrigerant? I am. I'm nice and cool too.

JimmyL · #34 03-09-2009, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

Makes sense to me that if nobody in Texas can sell it, nobody in Texas can buy it and the use of it would not be possible unless you bring your own across state lines for personal, non aviation, use.

I have 3 cans out in the garage that I purchased last year for use in China. Internet purchase, but it wasn't illegal to buy it, just illegal to buy it for purposes other than resale I think. Who can remember last year?
The R134a makes the car undrivable during most of June and September and all of July and August. I might get to it this year, or might just drive China at night and other stuff during the day like last year.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Leo

Jimmy, are you still running that 'outlaw' refrigerant? I am. I'm nice and cool too.

This will probably be the year I give it a try. Nothing to lose and easy to do without having to worry about acidic properties.
I can't remember, did you install yours while the system was under a vacuum? I've got some re-reading to do.

Alert to all the stir-eee's apt to chime in: gasoline is also still flammable......

#35 03-09-2009, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyL

The R134a makes the car undrivable during most of June and September and all of July and August.

Thats one reason I got out of Oklahoma and moved to Colorado. The hottest month here is August and most of the year is windows-down weather. The 300D is my third car without working A/C and I still don't miss it. I'm not even going to invest anything into trying to fix it, I'll just remove all the dead weight and sell whats good.

Quote:

Alert to all the stir-eee's apt to chime in: gasoline is also still flammable......

Are you circulating pressurized g@soline vapor through the cabin though?

tdelaurier · #36 03-09-2009, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyL

"Stirring of the pot" alert.......

I REALLY didnt intend to stir anything - my grandfather always told me "if you stir ***** your gonna get some on ya"

The only reason I bring it up - is after reading a few thousand posts, I keep seeing people quoting the EPA website regs - that mention states where its illegal - but once I looked at my state codes it doesnt seem the case...

Not that it matters either way ! I just want cold air and I wanna do it myself.

JimmyL · #37 03-09-2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

Are you circulating pressurized g@soline vapor through the cabin though?

What a great point Lance! Gee, I hope I don't punch the dashboard, create a spark and blow myself up!!

It may be a little irresponsible of me, but I did weld my propane grill to the front of my pickup just to live on the wild side.......

79Mercy · #38 03-09-2009, 04:20 PM

I just repaired my AC last weekend, the o-ring at the condensor started leaking. At the time I had enviro safe in the system. When all the E-S leaked out I was happy to know that I didn't add to global warming, LOL.

I put E-S back in the system, im really pleased with it. It was about 80 degrees today and the AC was nice and cold.

bullwinkle · #39 03-09-2009, 05:58 PM

I do refrigeration for a living-I really can't see the danger UNLESS you had a low side leak & pulled air (containing OXYGEN) into the system, compressed it, & then somehow set it off.

In the absence of oxygen, no combustion is possible.

Still running R12 myself, though!

79Mercy · #40 03-09-2009, 06:00 PM

^^what?

bullwinkle · #41 03-09-2009, 06:03 PM

Familiar with gasoline engine technology-mix fuel with air, compress, than apply a spark-guess what happens? BOOM!

#42 03-09-2009, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullwinkle

In the absence of oxygen, no combustion is possible.

The danger is not inside the lines, it is leaks/breaks in the lines. Get in an accident and one of those lines break open, the fan motor can ignite it or the engine can ingest it and run away.

#43 03-16-2009, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdelaurier

Can anyone show me the exact TEXAS code that prohibits the use of HC's in AUTO's ????

I don't have any TEXAS code, but I do have FEDERAL code.

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html

Quote:

# May hydrocarbon refrigerants be used to replace CFC-12, commonly referred to as "Freon® ," in cars?
No. It is illegal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants like HC-12a® and DURACOOL 12a® as substitutes for CFC-12 in automobile or truck air conditioning under any circumstances.

Quote:

# Why is it legal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants as CFC-12 substitutes in industrial process refrigeration, but not elsewhere?
EPA has not yet received data that adequately address the safety issues of hydrocarbon refrigerants in applications other than industrial process refrigeration. Flammability risks depend on the type of refrigeration or air-conditioning system. Industrial process refrigeration, for instance, does not include air conditioning, which pipes refrigerated air directly into occupied areas. Industrial process refrigeration generally refers to complex customized appliances used in the chemical, pharmaceutical, petrochemical and manufacturing industries. Direct risk to human health is reduced in industrial process refrigeration; for example, access to areas near the system is typically restricted. In addition, other regulations exist to protect the safety of industrial workers.

EPA will review any additional material that is submitted under SNAP regarding the safety considerations of using hydrocarbon refrigerants in systems other than industrial process refrigeration.

Quote:

# What other regulations restrict the use and handling of hydrocarbon refrigerants?
In addition to the prohibition on use described above, and the federal law banning the venting of all refrigerants, there are also state and local statutes and regulations that relate to certain uses of hydrocarbons. As of the printing date of this fact sheet, EPA is aware that the following states prohibit the use of flammable refrigerants in automobile air conditioners: Arkansas, Arizona, Connecticut, Florida, Idaho, Iowa, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Maryland, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin, and the District of Columbia.

Local fire codes also often restrict the storage of flammable materials. In addition, other federal, state, and local regulatory agencies may have regulations related to flammable refrigerants. Check with these authorities for more information.

WD8CDH · #44 03-16-2009, 08:39 AM

I have done some carefully controlled tests comparing R-12 to hydrocarbon substitutes. With both properly charged, the hydrocarbon is slightly more efficient and has slightly greater cooling capacity.

From my experience with using propane injection for engine performance enhancement, I don't think there is enough HC in a MB A/C system to create much of a runaway hazard from an under the hood leak.

leathermang · #45 03-16-2009, 01:16 PM

Did anyone see the movie ' The Great Waldo Pepper ' ?