My rear wheels (still) tilt in like this - \ / need advice... - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

dieseldan44 · #1 04-20-2008, 10:35 PM

Good evening,

My rear wheels have had about 1.5 degrees of positive camber for the past year - and I've been trying like heck to get rid of it. Here's what I have replaced in the rear end:

-shocks (last May)
-spring pads - now have 9mm's (last May - started with 19mm's)
-subframe mounts (last June)
-diff mount (last June)
-sway bar links (last May)
-springs (today - ones I too out were different than the OEM's I put in)
-(and rear axles too, but that shouldn't matter here - Feb '07)
-aligned by Indy last may, and checked again this past Friday

After all of that, Im right back to where I began - about 1.5 degrees positive camber when I should have zero. Very noticeable when looking at the car from the rear.

What now? Start looking towards the front possibly sagging, raising the rear? I always see our cars with sagging rears - I haven't seen anyone on the board have this opposite issue.

Any advice much appreciated

. I have spent a lot of time on this one so far. Oh how I long for no camber...

Thanks,
dd

ps - This is a continuation of an earlier thread - I have summarized most of it in this post already, but the original thread: My left rear wheel tilts in like this \, what to adjust?

BenzDiesel · #2 04-20-2008, 11:11 PM

If you started out with 19mm and reduced to 9mm, it seems to me that that is part of your problem. As I understand it, camber is adjusted on these cars by INCREASING pad height to correct excessive negative camber. It seems you went the wrong way, you decreased height rather than increased height. What does those pads cost?

BenzDiesel

t walgamuth · #3 04-20-2008, 11:11 PM

You must have springs that are too tall.

The front cannot make the rears have too much positive camber.

The simplist solution is to add weight to the rear.

You do have your spare in there don't you?

Tom W

dieseldan44 · #4 04-20-2008, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenzDiesel

If you started out with 19mm and reduced to 9mm, it seems to me that that is part of your problem. As I understand it, camber is adjusted on these cars by INCREASING pad height to correct excessive negative camber. It seems you went the wrong way, you decreased height rather than increased height. What does those pads cost?

BenzDiesel

BenzDiesel,

I think its the opposite. Think of the thicker pad extending the distance between the body and the control arm. More distance = more positive camber.

dd

dieseldan44 · #5 04-20-2008, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

You must have springs that are too tall.

The front cannot make the rears have too much positive camber.

The simplist solution is to add weight to the rear.

You do have your spare in there don't you?

Tom W

Tom,

Thank you for the reply.

The springs I put in today are the Lesjesfors available on this site - and have the correct mercedes PN stamped right on them. I think these were OE. Im sure they are correct.

Springs I just took out had same ire size a the OEM's, but had half a turn more wire. Their only marking was 4 red slashes. No MB part # or anything like that.

Spare tire is in the trunk. All aspects of loading the car are correct. Full tank vs. empty tank hasn't seemed to make much difference. I need to add about 75 lbs of weight to the very rear of the trunk to equalize it.

Any other thoughts? I really want to fix this the right way and find out why its messed up for my own education and sanity.

dd

t walgamuth · #6 04-21-2008, 06:13 AM

Oh, sorry I missed that you put in springs. It may take a few months of running to get it all to settle in an reach the correct heights.

I would put the 75# of ballast in there and run it and see if it does not settle in to the right height.

Tom W

BenzDiesel · #7 04-21-2008, 07:54 AM

You will have to read the manual on how Mercedes recommends reducing rear wheel negative camber. They don't even talk about positive camber and is probably due to hardly anybody ever experiencing positive camber, most always negative camber where the top of the wheels lean in toward the body. Also, a whole lot of Mercedes engineering doesn't make sense when you try to logically guess at what is going on. Its almost like they go against common logic to get to the end result, which calls for a very high level of intelligence to understand and then work on these cars. It causes a whole lot of frustration as well, until you begin to think like they do.

BenzDiesel

mobetta · #8 04-21-2008, 09:14 AM

add a wvo system with a 15 gal tank in the trunk, and keep it full.... or rip it all out and put in SLS

If you have the FSM, there is a good chart on what springs were fit to which car with which options. they are ID'd by blue/red stripes, etc..... section 32-010

if you dont have it, email me, I could send a copy.

Burnzy · #9 04-21-2008, 10:55 AM

I have the same issue with my car, slight positive camber when empty. I am sure if I could afford to actually fill my fuel tank all the way up

, the added weight might help. When I throw a couple of children in the back seat it is much less pronounced, if not eliminated entirely.The tires are wearing evenly, and it seems to handle fine. But I will say it is one of those things that I can't help noticing everytime I look at my car.

dieseldan44 · #10 04-21-2008, 11:24 AM

Than you for the replies.

I have just gone through the service manual - (thanks Mo):

Relevant articles if anyone should read this in the future are:
32-010
32-230
32-240
32-250

For 123.133 (82-85 300D USA) cars the rear spring PN is 123 324 36 04. I had one with red slashes, indicating it was a 'short spring', and subject to use with three-nub, or 19mm spring pads.

I think I started with correct rear springs and spring pads. I now have verified that I have correct springs and shorter than stock spring pads, meaning I should have excess negative camber if anything.

As t walgamuth suggested, Ill ballast it and see how it goes. But, since I have come up with the same results following replacing a lot of stuff, I am skeptical that it will change (until the new components wear out :-) .

Are there any safety concerns or major tire wear concerns running with this positive camber?

The only other thing I can think of is the new CVJ reman axles...but..,I cant see how this would affect it.

Tom - why would the front end's not affect the rear somehow?

dd

dieseldan44 · #11 04-21-2008, 09:48 PM

Just as an update...

Re-checked tire pressures and went for a few mile drive.

No change in camber.

Looks like I need to get my hands on some worn out springs :-)

cphilip · #12 04-21-2008, 10:09 PM

Designed to place your dead mother in law in the trunk?

Thanks... I'll be here all week...

t walgamuth · #13 04-21-2008, 10:36 PM

[QUOTE=dieseldan44;1830864]Than you for the replies.

I have just gone through the service manual - (thanks Mo):

Relevant articles if anyone should read this in the future are:
32-010
32-230
32-240
32-250

For 123.133 (82-85 300D USA) cars the rear spring PN is 123 324 36 04. I had one with red slashes, indicating it was a 'short spring', and subject to use with three-nub, or 19mm spring pads.

I think I started with correct rear springs and spring pads. I now have verified that I have correct springs and shorter than stock spring pads, meaning I should have excess negative camber if anything.

As t walgamuth suggested, Ill ballast it and see how it goes. But, since I have come up with the same results following replacing a lot of stuff, I am skeptical that it will change (until the new components wear out :-) .

Are there any safety concerns or major tire wear concerns running with this positive camber?

The only other thing I can think of is the new CVJ reman axles...but..,I cant see how this would affect it.

The only way I can imagine that the front could affect the rear is if you had a lot of extra weight up there ahead of the front axle line which lifted weight off the rear.

The other thing I thought of is that you could have bent one or more parts on the suspension. Have you actually measured the camber to verify that you have this positive camber?

The positive camber would cause less grip in a corner, possibly.

Tom W

dieseldan44 · #14 04-21-2008, 11:59 PM

Tom,

When I had the vehicle aligned last May, they measured 1.47 degrees positive camber on the rear wheels. FWIW, the spec is 0 to -2 degrees. Ill try measuring again the next time Im in the garage with a level.

The two rear wheels are toed in exactly the same, and I haven't done anything I can possibly think of to somehow bend the subframe or CA's. I can't imagine I could have damaged the rear wheels in exactly the same manner.

Thank you for your continued thought on the subject...I know at some point there will be an ah-ha moment somewhere. There has to be, something is wrong.

Im ready to offer a reward for the root cause

dd

Shark · #15 04-22-2008, 12:16 AM

Sounds like Someone put in a wrong size bushing in back of the diff. Make sure you have the stock rear end and axles and triple check the rear bushing part numbers legnth etc. It could be that the last 2 bushings were too short and you need a longer one.
Sounds like a parts problem.