The original IP has the pin locator but the replacement IP does not, from what I gather I can't go back & just reset to engine timing marks but must determine how much it is off & then calculate how many teeth to offset the IP cam to, is that correct? I also don't see how it is possible to remove an IP without removing oil filter can.?? Thanks to all for input

Best of luck it may be a little tedious. I think you are on the right track. Sorry it's so much work.

If you decide to pull the pump by removing the fuel cutoff device. Make sure to take precautions against a runaway engine after installing it again. Basically just a piece of wood or something simular for over the intake portion under the air filter. This just blocks airflow to the engine and stops it if required.
A possible shortcut. I said possible not certain. Slide the pump straight back with whatever degrees were indicated on the harmonic balancer during the last drip cutoff test. Then turn the engine to the 24 degree point if this can be accomplished when turning the engine the right way only a very short distance.
You might obtain the same effect by turning almost two turns of the bottom flywheel damper if required. This is only if your transit direction requires a reversal to get to 24 degrees from the present drip cutoff position. Then just slide the pump back in in the middle of the adjustment arc. If you are lucky and that pump spline does not move you should be home free.

Excuse my seemingly abstract approaches. Generally they work out far more times than not when I am working on some things. I would try it but I am not you. Then just verify the new setting with a new drip test.

Not much really lost as you already know the amount of teeth you will have to move from the present absolute index position of the spline if the attempt fails.

Keep us informed as this area is hard for some people to deal with and you are contributing to the overall general knowledge. This kind of method is what I consider my version of float timing a pump in. I may not be technically correct with terminoligy as my general knowledge is somewhat limited. I am not a real working mechanic but seem to get by somehow on my own cars in general. I still think my engines live in a state of fear and seldom act up because of it.

OK, I've removed the oil filter cannister & IP, waiting for new gaskets & meanwhile trying to understand how to set Start of Delivery, I've read the manuals instructions & read the 1 file in DYI as well as searched the archives, in double checking my original settings I find I was correct on 24% btdc on comp. stroke & IP cam gear notches, I am not getting what I would call consistent readings & am frustrated in understanding how to read the drip, not sure how to proceed. will post again soon but could use some guidance???

If you are using the method where you pressurize they fuel system with the hand primer it is best to get someone else to keep pumping on the hand primer so that an even pressure can be maintained. If you try to pump yourself and at the same time watch and adjust things the pressure ends up dropping. If the pressure fluctuates the amount of drips per second coming out of the same sized hole will also fluctuate.

__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

A understanding of what is actually happening inside the pump might help. This is only if you are not already aware though. For the drip test you are dealing with the position of the first elements piston in its bore. As it is travelling upward at a given point it cuts off its fuel supply port. This of course stops the drip. The fuel you are supplying to the pump body has some pressure so it is an available escape route for the fuel as long as it has some pressure and the supply port on that elements cylinder is open.

You are trying to get just slightly before that total cutoff point and for practical purposes are there when the fuel stream is being reduced and further upward movement of the piston results in the drip being reduced as well to almost nothing.

The fuel entrance point is again for all practical purposes almost totally closed off by the piston at that point. One complication that disturbs people is in how they are providing fuel for the test. It is perhaps better to use two people with one on the primer pump to provide a more uniform pressure for the test. Make sure you are turning the engine in the same direction as it runs to the 24 degree mark before the test. You can tell by the fan blade if uncertain.

Glad to hear they still indexed the pump on 84 and 85s. It was no longer a real requirement with the locating device for the pump on those years as far as I can accertain.

Someone that has timed a lot of these pumps maybe can chime in as well. You seem to be having some kind of difficulty I cannot quite relate to. You are advancing the throttle linkage for the test if recommended?
I see other people are posting some simular information as I just checked back on this thread. Good.

Concentrate on geting the new pump timed. When sure it is do not worry if power is still down. Since the index points still seem valid you probably had the pump timed right the last time.

The clue to the depressed power with the old pump is you had two pump elements numbers 4&5 dry if I remember. A good chance it is a fuel supply problem as you suspected just not the pump. I hope I am wrong yet many people have been down simular paths.

That existing problem might even affect the drip setting if you are pumping a lot of air into the pump..If things stay difficult gravity feed the pump from an elevated container for the drip test. You will get to the bottom of this.

Just do not get upset or frustrated during the process. At that point the thinking process departs for the majority of us. If in fact when working on something and it is tending to get on our nerves. It is best to leave it or put it aside for a short time. Usually amazing how much better things go when we get back to them after a short rest.

I did not realize to keep pumping hand primer, thought just pumping to start was the process, will try again with helper, when I reinstall with new gaskets I want to be certain I am on correct position. FTR, I just looked at original pump & it does have notch on body & gap in teeth for alignment, as does earlier, replacement pump which does not have pin align. location

Since from what I can gain from your descriptions the pump index is still valid on your year. So you are in pretty good shape.

Also you identified your procedural problem. That is a positive step forward. I still suspect this thread will elongate somewhat till this whole issue of your cars performance is totally straightened out.

There are gentleman on site with years of experience on your type engine. I am not one as earlier stated yet get by generally with mechanical or electrical /electronic devices.

You will find that far more knowledgeable people than me will help out all along the way if required. The beauty is at the end of it all you will be far more familiar. Believe it or not that is almost priceless with todays costs in general. Without this site people would be missing a lot in my humble opinion.

Also the bonding to your car that may occur. I know it's not logical but it happens. Actually it is good therapy for people that earn their money in other ways like myself. Can improve perspective and even help reduce stress in many instances. The challenges after they are surmounted usually give a good feeling of accomplishment as well. Keep at it.

I think I start to understand, I now have engine at 23% btdc with IP fully advanced (as close to engine as it can be) at this timing it changes from stream to drip, any retarding of IP or engine % does not produce drip, only stream, any comments as to whether I need to move IP cam 1 tooth to allow for further adj.?

Yes, I would pull it back out and advance it one or two teeth. You may be able to do this by pulling the pump towards the rear of the engine while in the full advanced position, and pushing it back in at a more retarded position.

__________________
For Sale: 1982 MB 300TD
1995 Chevrolet Suburban 6.5TD

Sold: 1980 IH Scout Traveler- Nissan SD33T Diesel

will do, but I will carefully set it back 1 tooth, any thoughts on why it is at the end of adj.?

There is no need to count teeth. Just remove the IP, align the reference marks, then reinstall the IP so that it is in the center of the adjustment range.

Thanks Tango, do you mean leave engine at 23% (instead of 24%) & reinstall with IP at reference marks? (I had carefully aligned to marks & installed at 24%.) Or, leave at 23% & advance IP?

Set the crank to 24 degrees.

Unless the IP got "bumped" on installation, that should have worked. There was a series of IP's with mismarked reference points, however. But yours sounds too close to be one of those.

Perhaps installing the IP in a position that will allow more advance adjustment (ie: tilting away from the engine) would be a solution.

took awhile to get this job done, I offset the cam gear 1/2 tooth advanced, this put the adj. range back in the middle & I was able to get proper drip while in the center of adj. car has adequate power, there may be other issues but I'm confident my IP timing is correct, once I understood to pump primer & look for change from stream to drip adj. was simple, THANKS to all who contributed, it would not have been easy without your input! I have other issues, trans shifts poorly, no instr. lights, water on floor of back pass. seat, will post questions on these as I get to them