Considering Buying a 1984 190D, 5-Speed

[JimSmith]

I am considering picking up a 1984 190D 2.2 with a 5-speed manual transmission and 98,000 miles. I have driven the car and kind of like it, as it retains the agility of the W201 chassis, and the 5-speed is well matched to the 2.2 liter Diesel's torque curve.

I have some reservations though and wanted to hear from the body of experience out there with this engine, and the car itself. As you can see from my list of cars below, I have had nearly thirty years of Mercedes-Benz Diesel experience. All of this was with the family of engines comprising the 220D and 240D produced from the early 70's (maybe even earlier) to the mid 80's (1983 for the 240D) until my 1991 350SD. The earlier Diesels were great cars, delivering reliability beyond any reasonable standard for a mass produced automobile, with fuel and maintenance economy that brought "total ownership costs" to levels that competed with rides that could not offer anywhere near the safety and comfort of these vehicles. This led me to attribute the same performance to the 350SD without doing my homework, and I have been sorely disappointed. The 350SD has been a nightmare and continues to goad me into considering dumping it. The engine failed and had to be rebuilt, the turbo is failing, and there have been a stream of electrical problems, from window regulators to wiper motors.

So, my questions deal with the longevity and reliability expectations for the engine. Upon inspection this car seems to have a cross flow head, which is different compared to my 240D's, and it seems to be aluminum, also a change from the 240D (to reduce weight, but aluminum is a peculiar metal and has no fatigue limit, making its use in a strength member like the head on a Diesel a significant stretch from the gas engine experience). This particular car has an oil stain at the rear of the engine, around the #4 cylinder at the block to head parting line. I am concerned the head may be a weak link, and the leakage at the rear of the engine an indication of a failure in progress.

I also noted the glow plugs seem to be nearly impossible to get to without first removing the intake manifold. Not a feature intended to keep cost of ownership down.

The interior of this car is M-B Tex, I believe, and the door sills at the base of the window are nearly destroyed. The original color was "Palomino" or the like, a light brown/beige. These sills are dark brown and appear to be cutting and tearing along the horizontal surface. It is worse on the driver's side but all the sills are nasty looking. Is this a typical failure for these cars?

The jack engagement tube in the driver's side, in front of the rear tire in the rocker panel is rusting. Are these cars susceptible to rust problems here?

The rest of the "stuff" in the car seems to be ok. The A/C was not overwhelming today, (85+ degrees F and near 100% humidity), but seemed to be trying to cool the car. Is the A/C supposed to be really cold under these conditions?

I think the car, presuming there are no big repairs looming, is probably worth around $5,000. If this is way off let me know, and please let me know if there is a problem that is related to a design error, like on my 350SD where the connecting rods have less than an infinite fatigue life, that will cause a premature failure of the engine or the transmission (BTW the clutch feels like it is on its last leg, and the person selling the car agreed, so I think the dealer will be fixing that since that is where it has always been serviced).

Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Jim

[CJ]

The car you are looking at seems to be neglected, it should not have any rust. the glo plugs can be replaced without removing the intake, you need to get to them from the left underside of the intake.
I'd say keep looking, there are plenty out there.

[Ken300D]

I'm leaning toward saying the price you suggested is a little high, especially for a person-to-person transaction.

Most people I talk to think of the 190D/E as a mini-Benz, more on the order of a BMW 3-series.

Have you considered looking around for a '82 or '83 240D? Or a little more power in a 300D up to '85? Or an even bigger 300SD?

$5000 can buy you a nice 240D/300D if you are patient and willing to look around and maybe drive some distance to inspect the prospects. With these cars you get a lot of iron and steel for your money too!

While I'm not advocating EBay as a way to buy (especially without using CarFax and traveling to inspect first) you could browse and search through cars there to get an idea of what's available, what shape its in, and how much the market is paying.

I always search "passenger cars" using "300D", "240D" and "diesel" to get to see cars of interest to me.

That said, I should advise that I have a lot of experience searching Mercedes diesel prospects out on EBay, but only one instance of actually buying.

And I emphasize CARFAX to check title and vehicle history.

Ken
'82 300D

[be459]

I never have a 190D but I have been gathering informaiton on all MB diesels for the model year between 1977 to 1996. To my knowledge, the engine is very reliable but under power. It is okay if it has a 5-speed manual transmission, not automatic. The automatic transmission on 190Ds is not as reliable as the one on the 300Ds. The car has good body structure design, handling well, and handsome look. The 190D uses 601 engine which has an aluminum head. I think the engine block is iron. It gives very good diesel mileage, something like 45 mpg.

Per conditions as your stated, assuming no mechanical problems, my buying price is about $1500.

David