Thoughts about GM and diesel cars

[Flounder]

I keep reading about how GM is in truly desperate financial shape. Analysts are saying they didn't listen to consumers, and kept on building cars nobody wants. What I don't get is, why is GM so anti-diesel? They don't have a single diesel car in their U.S. product line, yet they build and sell them in Europe.

OK I understand it takes some development to certify the European models to pass American emissions regs and stuff like that, but we're talking about GM here. If they wanted to I'm sure they could throw 200 engineers at it and get it done.

I would actually go out and buy a new GM car to help them, out of Patriotism, if they only had a diesel car in their showrooms.

Are we dieselheads that small a minority that GM doesn't think it's worth catering to us?

[lutzTD]

most people I know wouldnt touch a diesel. it takes a ride and a drive in one to convert, and even then the lack of take off power seems anti-american to some. we seem to build US cars for drag races where europe builds for road races. ford also make diesels in europe. I believe they have a 60MPG escort we cant get, i would live with escort styling for 60MPG

[LuckyEddie]

I think that the US pollution laws have made it most unprofitable to put out a diesel auto and they got burned on the last one they had. Too bad I would like to have one myself.

I have a friend that sells farm equipment and his job is to go out to the new equipment in the field to reprogram the computer. The tractors will not run with a load or get any fuel economy without the reflash but they must pass EPA when they leave the factory.
There must be some sensible reasoning at some point.

[F18]

GM-USA is a big outdated neanderthal machine that could not change gears or direction fast enough to keep pace with consumer demands even when they were healthy! Even with proposed "bail out cash" they would still be headed down the wrong road.

They claim there is not enough demand in the states for diesels for them to retool in the US, train diesel techs and develop the part supplies/inventories and distribution..... they would rather build vehicles that are not selling and wait for government/taxpayer money so they can continue to do more of the same thing. And these are the same idiots that want to merge with Chrysler!!!!! another albatross

The best thing for them is to be forced to file for Chapter 11, then down size and get lean and mean so they can refocus and respond to these new emerging categories in the US auto market like diesel, diesel-electric hybrid before the Asian auto makers take it all with no competition.
Sorry for the rant!

[F18]

Originally Posted by lutzTD

most people I know wouldnt touch a diesel. it takes a ride and a drive in one to convert, and even then the lack of take off power seems anti-american to some. we seem to build US cars for drag races where europe builds for road races. ford also make diesels in europe. I believe they have a 60MPG escort we cant get, i would live with escort styling for 60MPG

Yep......They have been marketing a diesel version of the Escort in Europe and Ford has also been manufacturing diesels for the European market and UK for years. Ford is ready to start selling their new Diesel Fiesta across the pond which gets 65mpg per US Gallon - combined driving (They claim 80+mpg highway). But Ford like GM claims they cannot afford to import that little diesel engine to the US and it would not be cost effective to retool and make it in the US plants. ?????? They do not deserve any sympathy or taxypayer money!

[Jeremy5848]

There are still too many people who remember the GM diesel disaster – the Cadillac and Olds diesels that they sold for a few years.

[F18]

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

There are still too many people who remember the GM diesel disaster – the Cadillac and Olds diesels that they sold for a few years.

Jeremy.....I am now 55 and I was in college at the time of that lame attempt to convert gasoline engine blocks to run diesel. Most of the people that actually were running the country at that time and could afford one of those "tanks" are now dead or retired........
This is a whole new market with new young consumers that are tech savvy and I think they are eager for more (economical) transportation options. The one that steps forward first with a new affordable passenger diesel in the US wins!

I was a conservation major in college and I drove a 65 VW Bug (with the 6volt system) that got 37 mpg on the Highway all through college and beyond.
I think a good part of our population is now of the same mind set.

Originally Posted by F18

attempt to convert gasoline engine blocks to run diesel.

That is incorrect, GM did NOT convert gas engines.

[bustedbenz]

Originally Posted by F18

This is a whole new market with new young consumers that are tech savvy and I think they are eager for more (economical) transportation options. The one that steps forward first with a new affordable passenger diesel in the US wins!

I was a conservation major in college and I drove a 65 VW Bug (with the 6volt system) that got 37 mpg on the Highway all through college and beyond.
I think a good part of our population is now of the same mind set.

I don't know... the environmentalists have worked so hard and so tirelessly to associate "diesel" so permanently with "black smoke, filthy animals who drive them are polluting our beautiful green planet" that the young environmentalist/conservationalist is probably now thoroughly a believer in hybrid gasoline vehicles, if not full electric.

I'd love to think my generation (i'm a college student) was interested in diesels, but most of them seem content to give my nice cloud of black smoke... interesting hand signals, from the seat of their four-cylinder plastic econo-box with the spoiler on the trunk and the stereo making it jump up and down on the springs.

[lowriderdog37]

I think a big problem now is that several states made such high emission standards. The issue with this is that with the huge trucks, and semi's (that use the most fuel) aren't required to follow the rules. The passenger cars which get great mileage are the most restricted, and no new companies want to spend the time and money to make their systems compliant.

If states redirect their attention to creating policy that benefits fuel conservation in the cars that can utilize it the most, we can get something done.

Come to think of it, I have read somewhere that Europe has more stringent guidlines on the quality of diesel and biodiesel they can sell. That would be very beneficial to progress as well.

[F18]

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

That is incorrect, GM did NOT convert gas engines.

It was my understanding .....even back then that they used gasoline engine blocks that they already had in the line and mated them with a new diesel head that they designed. I can remember even hearing that from a mechanic back in the late 70's. If it is disinformation my apology. No matter what it was a horribly/ hastily designed diesel engine........

Originally Posted by F18

they used gasoline engine blocks that they already had in the line and mated them with a new diesel head that they designed

The Diesel block and heads were unique to the Diesel engines. They were not converted g@ssers but they could be converted into very strong g@ssers.

I can remember even hearing that from a mechanic back in the late 70's.

Incompetent and poorly trained mechanics were 90% of the problem. The headgasket would blow and they would reuse the head bolts not knowing they were torque to yield. The gasket would soon blow out again, giving the owner the impression the engines were unreliable.

[sixto]

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

The headgasket would blow and they would reuse the head bolts not knowing they were torque to yield. The gasket would soon blow out again, giving the owner the impression the engines were unreliable.

I would think any engine unreliable the first time a head gasket blew with under 100K miles.

Sixto
87 300D

[compu_85]

Yes, just like VW they used an existing design and changed it to work as a diesel. Poor quality fuel, incompetent service, poor head bolts, and poor head gaskets conspired against the GM diesels. Like most of GMs endeavors they had gotten them right by the end, but the product's image was so bad noone would touch them.

GM didn't fit a water separator to the diesel cars. "Wet" diesel fuel would corrode the insides of the injection pump, which would cause the timing to go way advanced, raising cylinder pressures...

The early 1.5l VW diesels had problems with blown head gaskets, just like the GM cars. But VWs did have reusable head bolts back then, and VW improved the head gasket material.

-Jason

[awsrock]

They really should just throw diesel car emission standards out...or at least have them similar to what our benzes had to go through. It's just ridiculous how such a simple and efficient technology is getting hampered.
This whole hybrid phenomenon is starting to get on my nerves. Where I work, we used to be part of the State of Illinois but we got handed off to be owned by the University...
A lot of the geologists go out in the field and have to haul back samples, etc, so we have a bunch of Excursions and Expeditions (although none are diesel! Don't know why). Anyway, University regulations now restrict us from buying any new vehicles unless they are hybrid! Unbelievable.
I also don't understand this whole "get into the carpool lane" pass that hybrid drivers get...because they aren't even using their batteries then!