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  #1  
Old 10-13-2001, 10:00 PM
Corby's Avatar
1981 300SD
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Endicott, NY
Posts: 35
Valve Stem Seal Replacement - Question??

I am going to be changing my valve stem seals on my 1981 300SD. I looked through the forum and found the procedure listed below. I have a question on step 1, didn't get to far did I..?? Do I have to remove my cam shaft to do this job?? At the bottom of step 1 it states "Loosen stuck camshaft bearings by means of light blows with a plastic hammer " but it doesn't say anything about removing the cam. It does state to remove the rockers by groups cylinders 1,2 in one group and cylinders 3,4,5 in the other group. I would think you need to relieve the pressure between the valve and the cam shaft before you can get the rockers out...??? I don't think you can set the cam so all the rockers are free in the group.

Any Ideas????????

Phil Corby


Procedure:

valve stem seal replacement for 617.95
This is regarding older diesel engines.


1. remove rocker arms with rocker arm brackets.

*Always install rocker arm at the same spot from where it has been removed.

REMOVAL
*Set camshaft in such a manner that the rocker arm is free of load. That is, the cam tips should point away from rocker arms.
*Screw out fastening screws of rocker arm bearing brackets.
*Completely remove rocker arm group in upward direction.
*Loosen stuck camshaft bearings by means of light blows with a plastic hammer.


2.Remove valve springs. .

REMOVAL
*Set piston of respective cylinder to ignition TDC.
*place holding wrench on valve spring retainer.
*unscrew cap nut
*unscrew counternut
*remove valve spring retainer and valve spring. Keep the parts organized. Do one cylinder at a time.

3.Force off valve stem seals with a screwdriver or pull of with pliers. Do not damage valve stem or valve guide.

4.lubricate new valve stem seals and mount by means of assembly mandrel. (I used two blunt tools to push them on). The mandrel is part no. 617 589 00 43 00 I don't think it is needed.

5. Install valve springs.

INSTALLATION
*Insert valve spring with narrow coils toward cylinder head (color dots at top)
*the rest is just the reversal of removal.

Repeat the above directions for each cylinder until all the seals are changed. I made sure the springs and retainers went back on the same valve. I don't know if it matters.


6. Install rocker arms with rocker arm bearing brackets.

INSTALLATION
*Set complete rocker arm group and screw down(38 Nm)
*(the rocker arm bearing brackets are located by means of fitted sleeves.)

7. Adjust valve clearance

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1981 300SD 164K Miles

Last edited by Corby; 10-24-2001 at 07:01 PM.
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  #2  
Old 10-13-2001, 10:26 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Old Lyme, Connecticut
Posts: 3,596
Corby,

Once you get the valve cover off and look at the situation you see you do not have to remove the camshaft. The instruction, verbatim from the Mercedes-Benz technical manual, tells you to position the camshaft so the lobes are not compressing the valves. Then, without taking the camshaft out, you unbolt the little pedestals that support the "axle" the rocker arms move on, all together. Then, with all the fasteners that hold the pedestals down removed, the whole assembly gets lifted up and out of the area. The M-B manual suggests you matchmark the pedestals and the head to make sure you get them back exactly as they were originally installed. Should you have to replace one of the rocker arms it suggests you replace all of them, and the camshaft, so don't lose track of which ones go where. Good Luck, Jim
__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #3  
Old 10-13-2001, 10:48 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Old Lyme, Connecticut
Posts: 3,596
Corby,

On the 240D there are two sets of assemblies with intake and exhaust valve rocker arms set to match the pattern in the head. In the 300D I imagine since I have never seen one, the five cylinders make this operation two sets, but one has two the other three cylinders worth of rocker arms. Yes, you do the ones that you will be working on first, then replace them and go to the next set, or you can take them all out (one set first, then reposition and do the next set) and then work on the valves one set/seal at a time.

The need to keep the assemblies match marked to the location they came from is still just as important, or maybe more so, as they will likely fit in the wrong position, but not turn out ok in the detailed geometry of the valve actuation. Hope this helps,

Jim
__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #4  
Old 10-14-2001, 03:15 AM
turbodiesel
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Posts: n/a
Hey Phil,

By the looks of the smoke at the diesel meet, I would not be looking at valve seals as the answer to your problem. Your smoke was WHITE and there was ALOT of it. Only at start up too. To me, this indicates a bad head gasket, cracked or warped head. If you needed valve seals you would have excessive oil consumption (on the order of 1qt/500mi) and excessive BLUE smoke. WHITE smoke is coolant burning.

John
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  #5  
Old 10-14-2001, 12:38 PM
Corby's Avatar
1981 300SD
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Endicott, NY
Posts: 35
TurboDiesel (John),

Before the Diesel Meet I thought the smoke was blue when I started the car after it sat for more that 4-5 hours. The day of the meet I drove for 3 hours in the rain to get to the meet and it was still raining when I got there. I'm wondering if there may have been some condensation built up in the engine during the day and it combined with the oil. Since the meet every time I start the car in the morning I get blue smoke only on startup after a long period of rest. I have not seen any change in the coolant level but have noticed that the oil level is dropping a little. One morning it was cold outside and when I started the car I did have a little white steam coming from the tail pipe, like you would on a cold morning, and when I reved it up the smoke turned to blue.

What do ya think...am I way off base here?? I figure the valve stem seals would be a cheap experiment before I go to pulling the head.

Phil
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1981 300SD 164K Miles
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  #6  
Old 10-14-2001, 10:20 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
Corby:

The follower arms are in two sets. A bit fiddly to remove, but not impossible. Be careful to get the appropriate piston far enough up in the bore to prevent dropping a valve into the motor!

Blue smoke on startup after sitting is bad valve guide seals. Coolant usually starts to "dissappear) before you see white smoke from coolant loss out the head.

White smoke on startup is normal for an older diesel, it is unburned fuel (you can smell it). coolant leaking through a bad head is constant, and you can smell that, too!

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #7  
Old 10-15-2001, 12:38 AM
turbodiesel
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Posts: n/a
Peter, you don't understand. This was not merely a puff, it was clouds of white smoke.

John
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  #8  
Old 10-15-2001, 07:34 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
White smoke is water vapor, but unless there is only water in the cooling system, you will also smell glycol.

Huge clouds of white smoke on startup that turn black upon warmup is very low compression or serious injector problems.

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #9  
Old 10-15-2001, 10:06 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Old Lyme, Connecticut
Posts: 3,596
I have had the vacuum pump diaphragm fail on the 1972 220D and not notice it while on the highway. When I stopped the car disappeared in a cloud of the thickest white smoke you can imagine. I think the color of the smoke is related to the quality of the combustion as well as the "fuel."

When you have water leaking into the combustion chamber, you don't burn it like a fuel, you make water vapor which comes out the exhaust pipe. The water vapor consists of small droplets that will quickly evaporate once they are surrounded by air of a lower relative humidity, and then they really disappear. This is apparent in the winter when the water vapor produced by combustion meets up with cold air that cannot support the moisture content of the hot exhaust. The white steam ("smoke") that you see quickly evaporates as the exhaust mixes with the winter air, raising its temperature and lowering its relative humidity and the evidence of combustion disappears.

Oil smoke, on the other hand is only less visible as it is mixed with enough air to make the concentration of particlulate produced by combustion reflect less light than we need to see it. In a white smoke I believe you have oil droplets from incomplete combustion of the unusually high concentrations of oil in the combustion chamber coming out the exhaust pipe. The white appearance results from much the similarity of the oil droplet size and other characteristics compared to the water droplets of the steam. The high oil content in the intake reduces combustion temperatures to the point that much of the oil never reaches the temperature needed to ignite. The result is a longer lasting white fog that smells nothing like anti-freeze or steam. It is long lasting because it does not ever actually evaporate like water droplets.

So, if the oil level in the car is going down and the water level is not, I suspect the white smoke is coming from the oil. Just my opinion.....Jim
__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #10  
Old 10-15-2001, 10:26 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
Jim:

Usually blue smoke, but HEAVY oil consumption at the very least, as in 50 miles to a quart or so to make white smoke -- my 220D uses about a quart in 200 miles, mostly blowby, and doesn't smoke at all except at idle, when I get a small amount of gray or blue smoke. Probably ought to do the head, anyway, but I bought this 87 300D with a sick motor and probably need to do the head on the Volvo too....!

Usually also get a funny droning noise and oil in the pressure side of the vacuum pump (intake manifold side), along with burnt pre-chambers if you wait long enough to fix it.

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #11  
Old 10-15-2001, 11:58 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Old Lyme, Connecticut
Posts: 3,596
psfred,

That event with my 220D happened when the car had just about 35,000 miles. I was in Vermont at the time, and I drove to the nearest dealer (Woodstock, as I recall now about 27 years later) and had the diaphragm replaced. I was more of a novice at this Diesel stuff then and was sure I did not want to drive the car around billowing smoke. The oil consumption at idle was horrendous, but at normal speeds it was higher than the norm for the car in near new condition, but not so bad as to require frequent stops to add a quart.

The experience so unnerved me at the time I actually bought a spare pump diaphragm and carried it in the car for the next 200,000 miles but never needed it.

My point was, when you dump a significant quantity of wet, liquid oil into the combustion chamber, along with the appropriate amount of Diesel fuel, there is not enough air to burn that extra rich load of hydrocarbons. Since the engine oil is not being atomized to enhance combustion since it is probably never going to ignite. Which gives rise to the white smoke.

When seals leak, and eventually I got a little more daring with that 220D and did a head rebuild in my driveway and saw the evidence first hand, they allow a steady dribble of oil to run down the valve stem. In my car the intake valves got so covered with carbonized engine oil they stopped seating, and choked off the flow of air. The intake valves and surrounding area upstream of the combustion chambers was wet with tarry oil deposits. It all cleaned up well enough and went back together fine, running another 80,000 miles when I "sold" it to my Father-in-law. He used to chide me about driving a Mercedes Diesel, but he was converted. He kept the car for 3 or 4 years, and traded it in on a 1981 240D with 84,0000 miles about ten years ago. He still has that car, a manual, with around 180,000 miles on it now. It rests during the winter to keep it from rusting, and is in near new condition.

Well, all I wanted to do is point out leaking seals can cause unusual quantities of oil to be sucked into the combustion chamber, and once in there can show up in a variety of colors at the tailpipe. Jim
__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #12  
Old 10-24-2001, 07:21 PM
Corby's Avatar
1981 300SD
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Endicott, NY
Posts: 35
Need Some Help...

I got a new set of valve stem seals from Performance Products and I have a question.

The part number on the package is 05-004 (Perf Products) and the other number is 617-050-00-067 (I think this is the MB number). My Car is a 1981 300SD, so I believe I have the right part numbers.

In the package is what appears to be two different kind of seals, 5 of one and 5 of the other. I assume 5 intake and 5 exhaust. The one kind has a metal case with a black rubber inside and has a inside diameter consistent with the ones I took off of #1 cylinder. The other one has is a brown rubber on the inside and the outside but the inside diameter looks a lot smaller...??? The brown one is very soft and looks like it will go on to the stem.

So....

1. Do I have the right parts ???

2. If I have the right parts which one goes on which valve???

Thanks.

Phil
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1981 300SD 164K Miles
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  #13  
Old 10-24-2001, 07:32 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
Corby:

Sounds like you got an old set, or someone has dug around to get the two different types. The smaller ones go on the intakes, the larger ones on the exhaust. MB supposedly standardized on one size a while back as it doesn't seem to make much difference if they are all the same size -- mine were (OEM MB parts). Use the little plastic covers when you slide the new seals on, or the threads on the valve stem will eat them and they will be as bad as the ones you took off!

Will solve some of your oil consumption problem, at least the blue smoke on startup!

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #14  
Old 10-24-2001, 07:55 PM
Corby's Avatar
1981 300SD
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Endicott, NY
Posts: 35
psfred,

Thanks, that makes sense. I guess you would want the smaller one on the intake because you don't want any oil sucked in with the air. You don't want any oil coming down either stem but the intake would be more likely to a leak during normal running so the tighter seal should be on the intake.

Well we'll see what happens.

Phil
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1981 300SD 164K Miles
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  #15  
Old 10-24-2001, 08:19 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
Corby:

Actually, intake valve stems are smaller diameter and the exhaust run much hotter -- these are sodium filled valve stems on the exhaust!

Make sure you get the new seals completely pushed down over the boss -- MB has a special tool (of course!) but you can use a big screwdiver, flat side, to push them down. Fairly stiff spring, but if they aren't all the way down, they don't work!

Peter

__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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